Re: Giron

Good that you have posted that.
Chronologically, as Rodrigo father married Teresa (Haro) 31.3.1243 and
they had at least a surviving daughter, Berenguela was almost
certainly not Arias mother. Also there is no son in Cawley and
somebody I read (Salazar y Castro?) stated clearly that the marriage
was childless.

It is you who said that you were suspicious that Berenguela López de
Salcedo and Berenguela López de Haro were one and the same thus making
the last mother of Rodrigo González Girón.
When I saw 'Colección Diplomática del Real Monasterio de Sta. María de
Benavides' I read that in Rodrigo's (here the father) tomb was written
something like "presently married with Berenguela" implying that he
was married before and as Jeronymo Gudiel wrote, that was Berenguela
López de Salcedo.
Jeronymo Gudiel made severe errors in this epoch and he did not detect
the Haro's double marriages. I think that he followed *Pedro of
Barcelos* - or both followed something older - and Berenguela López de
Salcedo is displaced some generations.
Anyhow I strongly suspect that Rodrigo González Girón is nowhere said
'son of Berenguela' but only 'son of Rodrigo's first wife' and that
was then supposedely Berenguela (Salcedo).

As I wrote before, I still have a lot of digging to do but I am slowly
forming the conviction that Rodrigo González (son) and Gonzalo
González are full brothers and both sons of María Fróilaz. I still
have doubts about wich of them could be Arias father and I still have
to ponderate the indicia about wich of them would be the eldest, as
some are contradictory.

Incidentally, M. Sjostrom commented in other topic that some
consanguinity proved that Cisneros and Giróns-Autillo were different
stock. I have the opposite opinion.
As I wrote before, Salazar y Castro, crossing data from Mendozas and
Laras inplied a marriage nephew-older aunt in the Giróns. I would not
like to follow that but, really, considering that nowadays Cisneros
belongs to the jurisdiction of Frechilla, inbred marriages were to be
expected in this people (as well as lots of nuns).

Regards,
Francisco
(Portugal)


On 5 Ago, 20:08, mara Gonzalez Morejon <gonzalezmore...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:13 PM, M.Sjostrom <q...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 Maria Froilas de Cifontes, married mayordomo-mayor Rodrigo Golzalvez Giron,
lord of Autillo, San Roman, Frechilla etc, and birthed further kids to the
second husband)

I'm lost here.   I don't have María Froilaz married to Rodrigo Glz Girón,
not saying it isn't so, just don't have any proof of this.

Because the queen Mantzia of Portugal was the co-executrix in 1257, and
because Berenguala Lupis, younger sister of queen Mantzia, is held to have
married a giron-heraldry man named Rodrigo Gonzalvez,
my mypothesis is also that Arias Gonzalvez de Cisneros's mother was the
said Berenguela Lupis of Biskaia.

--------

I don't agree on this one.  I checked Berenguela López de Haro's will at the
Real Academia de Historia and she does not mention any children, dead or
alive.

I translated my notes on a previous post.





1296.08.17
Will executed by  Berenguela López de Haro.
D-9, fº 21 a 24.

She mentions:

Marquesa Rodríguez, her niece
Aldonza Suárez, her husband (Sancho Sánchez) and children.
Diego Fernández (nephew)
Mari Fernández de Mendoza and daughter Mari Sánchez.
Leaves 200 mrvds for Aldonza Diaz, daughter of García Jofre.

Regards,
Mara

.