Re: Alice STONOR, wife of HUMPHREY STONOR
- From: CMW12635@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 01:41:36 EDT
< _mhollick@xxxxxxxx (mailto:mhollick@xxxxxxx) > wrote:
I disagree with your assertions. The fact that someone calls someone
brother or nephew at that time period would extend to either a full-
blood, half-blood, or in-law relationship. They would never have
called someone "my half-nephew" and since they all had the same
surname, the relationship was indeed thought of that way even more
In any case, you're conflating two successive generations of Thomas
Stonors. The parents of Alice are Thomas Stonor, born about 1424, d.
23 April 1474 and Joan de la Pole. His parents were another Thomas
Stonor and Alice Kirby. See: “The lineage and ancestry of HRH Prince
Charles, Prince of Wales” by Gerald Paget (Skilton, Edinburgh, 1977, 2
vols.) and “Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval
Families” by Douglas Richardson (Genealogical Publishing Co.,
Baltimore, 2004), p. 691.
I have not conflated two Thomas Stonors. All along, I have stated that
there were two Thomas Stonors, father and son. The elder Thomas married Alice
Kirby. This couple had a son, Thomas Stonor, who married Joan de la Pole,
the natural daughter of the first duke of Suffolk.
The question arose as to which Thomas Stonor was the father of Alice Stonor,
wife of Humphrey Forster. Contrary to what has appeared elsewhere, she
appears to be the daughter of the elder Thomas Stonor and his wife, Alice Kirby,
according to contemporary family documents found in Kingsford's STONOR
LETTERS AND PAPERS.
I am aware of the fact that the term "nephew" or "Brother" could have
meanings during this period other than those of today. However, when taken as a
whole, the STONOR LETTERS AND PAPERS convincingly indicates that Alice Stonor,
wife of Humphrey Forster, was the daughter of Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby..
As I related in my posting, I provided a couple of references from Kingsford
and they were not meant to be exhaustive or all encompassing. I would
suggest anyone sufficiently interested to review Kingsford's STONOR LETTERS AND
PAPERS. I would consider it a better source for this family than Paget.
To suppose that Humphrey Forster was related to the people in the previously
referenced correspondence in alternate ways is to disregard the evidence
from this source as well as others, such as the Visitation of Berkshire, 1566,
which mentions Humphrey Forster who married "Alice daughter of Thomas Stonor
of Stonor in the county of Oxfordshire..."
Reference is made in STONOR LETTERS AND PAPERS, p. 50, to the death of the
elder Thomas Stonor (d.1431) when his son, the younger Thomas Stonor was only
seven years old, being born 22 Mar 1424. Thomas Chaucer was appointed his
guardian, but he died several years later and the care of the estate was placed
in the hands of, among others, Humphrey Forster.
The same source, page 52, mentions the will of the second Thomas Stonor and
states that he made provisions for three daughters, Jane, wife of John
Cottesmore, Mary who would later marry John Barantyne, and Elizabeth.
The letter I referenced in an earlier e-mail, from Humphrey Forster to
Thomas Stonor, dated 1466, makes the additional references to "my brother
Saqueville" and "Suster Saqueville." As stated before, Humphrey refers to Thomas
Stonor as "brother." Thomas Sackville was married to Isabel, or Elizabeth,
Stonor, daughter of Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby.
A letter from Humprhey Forster, dating perhaps from 5 Apr 1471, addresses
Thomas Stonor as "goode kynde brother" and mentions his "nevewes" William and
Everything I've seen, thus far, indicates that Alice Stonor, wife of
Humphrey Forster, was the daughter of the elder Thomas Stonor and Alice Kirby.
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