- From: marianne dillow <mdillow31@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks, I would appreciate it if you could check it out. The Ragland book is 200 miles away from me and I can't go there. When I was at the Memphis Library the book was there but since it was so large and xeroxing was 20 cents a sheet I could only copy the early history and my direct line to Evan Ragland. They do not interloan.
As you look at the Ragland book , the author, Charles J. Ragland, says Evan Ragland through his parents Thomas Ragland and Jane Morgan. descends back to Sir Thomas ap William of Raglan Castle through surnames of Carne, Howell, Kemeys, Matthew, Gamage,etc. There are two other sons.. Jevan ap Thomas and Howell ap Thomas plus Sir Thomas ap William who took the surname of Herbert.that Charles says comes back to Evan Ragland's parents Thomas Ragland and Jane Morgan.
He gives charts in the book also of some of these surnames. He has given :
"Bap't ye Mar 31, 1656, Jevan (Evan) Ragland sone of Thomas and Jane Ragland.: Records in St. Decuman's in Somerset County, England. Some records in Stogumber Church also.
Charles Ragland says" The lives of Evan's three brothers can be traced in St. Decuman's and the county records of Somerset."
He gives starting with Sir William ap Thomas and Maud Morley dau of John Morley:
i. Jevan ap Thomas and Margaret Grant
ii. Robert ap Jevan (took the surname of Ragland) and Joan Clerke
iii. Lewis Raglan and Jane Evan
iv. Robert Ragland and Alice Matthew
v. Thomas Ragland and Mary Carne
vi. John Lewis Ragland and Alice Kingsonn
vii. Thomas Ragland and Marie Ingram
viii. Thomas Ragland and Jane Morgan
x. Evan Ragland and Susanna Pettus.. first one to New Kent Co., Va.
Sir Thomas ap William and Maude Morley dau of John Morley:
i. Howell ap Thomas wife unknown
ii. Isabella Verch Howell and John Carne
iii.Howell Carne and Cecile Kemeys
iv. Mary Carne and Thomas Ragland.. then goes to the lines listed above.
Sir Thomas ap William has a third son, Sir Thomas ap William that took the surname of Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke.... apparently there might be a mistake on his research on the Morgan line but Jane Morgan that married Thomas Ragland goes back to a Morgan line somewhere,
He has given sources and info where records were found. You will just have to look it over and see what you think and please let me know your observations after you look over the book please. I only want to pass on to my family my correct lineage.
Now, if anyone has any info on my Anne Sutton that married Richard Eltonhead.. to her father Edward Sutton that married Anne Stanley I would appreciate any info on Suttons from his Sutton family. I don't have any info on them but I always thought the Suttons goes back to the Dudleys. I also have seen where the Eltonheads probably came from the Norrey's family and took up the surname of Eltonhead.
Apparently Charles J. Ragland was wrong on the Morgan line with on Thomas Morgan and Cecilia Herbert I can accept that. I only want my TRUE lineage not faulty records.
I can give you this right now from his book. The records were initially found in St. Decuman's and Chapel of Stogumber in Somerset County, England.
"Bapt't ye Mar 31, 1656, Jevan (Evan) Ragland sone of Thomas and Jane Ragland.".. would be Jane Morgan born 1628 in Barry, south Wales. died in St. Decumans. He has her as the daughter of Evan ap James Morgan and Maud unknown... goes to James Morgan and Mary Jenkyn.. I always thought these two generations were rather obscure and have triied to find more info on them but never succeeeded.
Douglas gave me the following on my Eltonhead and Sutton line:
HENRY II, King of England, by a mistress, IDA DE TONY.
WILLIAM LONGESPÉE, Knt., Earl of Salisbury, married ELA OF SALISBURY.
STEPHEN LONGESPÉE, Knt., of King’s Sutton, Northamptonshire, married EMELINE DE RIDELISFORD.
ELA LONGESPÉE, married ROGER LA ZOUCHE, Knt., of Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire.
ALAN LA ZOUCHE, Knt., Lord Zouche, married ELEANOR DE SEGRAVE.
MAUD LA ZOUCHE, married ROBERT DE HOLAND, Knt., 1st Lord Holand.
MAUD DE HOLAND, married THOMAS DE SWINNERTON, Knt., 3rd Lord Swinnerton.
ROBERT DE SWINNERTON, Knt., 4th Lord Swinnerton, married ELIZABETH DE BEKE.
MAUD SWINNERTON, married JOHN SAVAGE, Knt., of Clifton, Cheshire.
MARY SAVAGE, married (as his 1st wife) WILLIAM STANLEY, Esq., of Hooton (in Wirral), Cheshire.
WILLIAM STANLEY, Esq., of Hooton (in Wirral), Cheshire, Stanley, married ALICE HOGHTON (or HOUGHTON).
WILLIAM STANLEY, Knt., of Hooton (in Wirral), Cheshire, married AGNES GROSVENOR.
WILLIAM STANLEY, Knt., Hooton (in Wirral), Cheshire, married ANNE HARINGTON..
PETER STANLEY, Esq., of Moor Hall (in Aughton), Lancashire, married CECILY TARLETON.
ANNE STANLEY, married EDWARD SUTTON, Gent., of Knowsley (in Huyton), Lancashire and Hall House (in Rushton Spencer), Staffordshire.
ANNE SUTTON, married RICHARD ELTONHEAD, Gent., of Eltonhead (in Prescot), Lancashire.
MARTHA ELTONHEAD, married EDWIN CONWAY, Gent., of Northampton and Lancaster Counties, Virginia.
Since the publication of my two books, I've since found evidence which conclusively proves that Maud de Holand (Gen. 7 above) married Thomas de Swinnerton, Knt. I descend from Elizabeth de Holand, sister of Maud de Holand, so we are distantly related to one another through the Holand family.
I will have to check out the other lines to se where they go to.
--- On Sat, 10/25/08, jhigginsgen@xxxxxxxxx <jhigginsgen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: jhigginsgen@xxxxxxxxx <jhigginsgen@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Ragland
Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 2:02 PM
On Oct 24, 6:56 pm, Ken Ozanne <kenoza...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I just downloaded volume I from:http://home.satx.rr.com/ragland/
I hope this moves us forward a little.
Ken (Just returned from extensive travels)
On 25/10/08 10:25, "gen-medieval-requ...@xxxxxxxxxxxx"
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Comprehensive descents from E3 - Evan Ragland, of VA?
On Oct 24, 2:32 pm, marianne dillow <mdillo...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
foind in publicHi Tony,
The two volumes on the Raglands are comprehensive and can be
google thislibraries as well as family members who have copies plus you can
British-Americanand look at the volumes yourself.
Charles J. Ragland, Jr's The Raglands - The History of a
distant cousin toFamily, Volume 1 and II. ... Charles Ragland, Jr. is a
Va the son ofmine. I descend from Evan Ragland that located to New Kent Co.,
<hosk...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Thomas Ragland and Jane Morgan.
Their included in the volumes.
--- On Fri, 10/24/08, Tony Hoskins
From: Tony Hoskins <hosk...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Comprehensive descents from E3 - Evan Ragland, of
EvanTo: plantagenet...@xxxxxxxxxxx, mdillo...@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 4:13 PM
Dear Mrs. Dillow:
I for one have never heard or read of such a claimed descent for
websiteRagland. I wonder if you could kindly cite us to sources?
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
Sonoma County Archivist
Sonoma County History and Genealogy Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
If these Ragland volumes are actually on-line, can you be more
specific as to where they are? Googling for them leads to the
privatelybelow offering a draft copy for download (as of Nov. 2006), but the
website it references has apparently gone dead.
From the citation in library catalogs, this looks like a
reliable,produced family history. Sometimes these can be useful and
generallybut quite frequently they tend to be "vanity" publications,
I'mwithout adequate documentation of their genealogical conclusions.
readersnot saying that this one is necessarily in the latter category, but
the fact that the supposed Ragland royal descent is unknown to
Margaretin this group (and hasn't been published elsewhere apparently) is
certainly a red flag. Caveat lector....
BTW, generation 5 in your descent shows "George Neville and
Nevill,Fienn". Based on the neighboring generations, this is George
4th Lord Abergavenny, whose wife was Margaret, dau. of Sir Hugh Fenne
[not Fienne, and thus not connected to the Fiennes family]. See CP
Thanks for pointing this out. It's too bad that volume 2 is not also
available, because volume 1 does not appear to support the line that
was posted, which was:
i. Edward III and Queen Philippa
ii. John of Gaunt and Catherine Swynford DeRoet
iii. Joan Beaufort and Ralph Neville
iv. Edward Neville and Elizabeth Beauchamp
v. George Neville and Margaret Fienne
vi. Elizabeth Neville and Thomas Berkeley
vii. Elizabeth Berkekey and George Herbert
vii. Cecilia Herbert and Thomas Morgan
viii. James Morgan and Mary Jenkyn
viii. Evan ap James Morgan and Maud unknown
ix. Jane Morgan and Thomas Ragland
x. Evan Ragland and Susanna Pettus
The only reference to anyone in this line in vol. 1 is generation
viii, Evan ap James Morgan, father of Jane who mar. Thomas Ragland.
The weak link continues to be the generation before, James Morgan and
Mary Jenkyn. Perhaps this couple is mentioned in volume 2?
My local genealogy library appears to have a copy of both of both
volumes of the Ragland work. I should be able to check it out on
Monday or Tuesday.
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