Re: Roeulx - two places & two familes

On Mar 20, 4:16 am, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't know if this has been discussed here before:

There are two different places called Roeulx, one now in Belgium (Hainaut,
Soignies) held until the early 14th century by the family under question
recently, and one in modern France (Nord, Valenciennes). There appear to
have been two distinct families belonging to these places respectively, as
indicated by a charter of Balduin, count of Hainaut (later also count of
Flanders by right of his wife Margaret), dated at Valenciennes on 27 & 31
March and 1 April 1181. In the section dated 27 March occurs the following:

"Nomina hominum meorum et comitis Flandrie qui interfuerunt: Eustachius de
Rues, Almannus de Provi, Adam dapifer, Ansellus de Lambris, Hugo de Ruet,
Jacobus frater ejus...." (The names of my men and those of the count of
Flanders who were present: Eustache de Rues, Almain de Prouvy, Adam the
dapifer, Anseau de Lambres, Hugo de Ruet, his brother Jacques....)

The last two were probably from Roeulx in the modern arrondissement of
Valenciennes, and so at that time men of the count of Flanders - but with
Hainaut being joined to Flanders from 1191, their descendants or relatives a
century or so later might have been considered (for instance by Froissart)
to be men of Hainaut. I think the two different spellings, within a few
names in the list, as well as the separation of the two "Ruet" brothers from
the one "Rues" individual, and the absence from Eustache's lineage of the
name Jacques (if not also of Hugo, though I'm not sure of this in either
case), suggest that they were not connected.

Peter Stewart

Peter,

It this other Roeulx in what is/what was called the Ostrevant? If so,
I think I came across this earlier in an Deviller's index entry (I
think it was vol. 6 indexing the first 5 vols. of the Cartulaire... of
the counts of Hainault.). If I've got the vol. # correct, it was on
p. 971 and reads:

"Ruet in Ostrevant. Voyez Roeulx, commune du departement du Nord."

I know that, for a while, Flanders and Hainault were one and the same,
but I thought that they had split again and come under the influence
of the French in the early 14th century. A wikipedia entry states
that Flanders fell back in the French orbit in 1304 (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Flanders#Historical_Flanders:_County_of_Flanders). [I know -- it's a
wikipedia entry]. I had thought that Flanders stood with France and
Scotland against England and Hainault with respect to the importing of
wool for the wool trade.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Judy
http://katherineswynford.blogspot.com
http://www.katherineswynford.net
.

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