Re: Gregoras Iberitzes, a Bagratid descendant?


"pierre_aronax@xxxxxxxxxxx" <pierre_aronax@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1185041359.819752.55270@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<snip>

- Psellos claims a line from Constantine X to a Panthèrios, most
probably a matrilineal line since of the three names he mentions
(Andronikos, Kônstantinos and Panthèrios), only the last one is not
used in the Doux/Doukas family.

- The name of Panthèrios points to the Sklèroi and is mentioned
because it was the first prominent figure in that line.

- Andronikos Doukas Lydos supported the revolt of Bardas Sklèros and
had a son named Bardas, all which strongly suggest he was married to a
Sklèraina, eventually a daughter of Bardas Sklèros.

No doubt there is room for interpretation of the passage by Psellos,
especially as to whether the term 'propappous' applied literally to all or
any of the three individuals named as relatives of Konstantinos X through
both his parents. However, since Andronikos was named before Konstantinos, I
think we have to assume Psellos meant the very famous father and son who
died ca 910 and in 913 respectively, rather than a later namesake of either
man. There must have been possible links between the Doukai and the Skleroi
in several generations, whether or not the specific unknown lines involved
to these three luminaries were ancestral or collateral.

It is also worth recalling that the name Michael occurred in the family
before Konstantinos X's son: Konstantinos Doux had a nephew of this name who
was also killed in the rebellion of June/July 913. Assuming this was a
Michael Doux/Doukas, the name could have been transmitted through him -
especially if the later Doukai were agnatic descendants and proud enough of
their celebrated predecessors to go on bestowing their names rather than
adopting new ones from influential connections on the distaff side, such as
Michael Keroularios or indeed Michael Psellos himself.

Peter Stewart


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Gregoras Iberitzes, a Bagratid descendant?
    ... (Andronikos, Kônstantinos and Panthèrios), only the last one is not ... No doubt there is room for interpretation of the passage by Psellos, ... line can be through any of the spouses of Constantine X' ancestors in ... Doux, as I suggested in the possible line I posted two days ago. ...
    (soc.genealogy.medieval)
  • Re: Gregoras Iberitzes, a Bagratid descendant?
    ... particularly the relatively rare Andronikos, ... emperor Constantine X "on the paternal side" has says Psellos. ... Since Konstantinos X ... Andronikos who assumed the surname Doukas and was great-grandfather to ...
    (soc.genealogy.medieval)