Re: Two Margaret Skipwiths

On Jun 16, 9:54 pm, John Watson <WatsonJo...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 17, 9:26 am, "mholl...@xxxxxxx" <mholl...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jun 16, 8:51 pm, John Watson <WatsonJo...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear all,

According to two visitation pedigrees [1,2], Sir Robert Constable of
Flamborough [ca. 1350 - 1401] married an unnamed daughter of Sir
William Skipwith. That her name was Margaret and she was the widow of
Alexander Surtees is shown in an entry in the Patent Rolls for 1384
[3]. That her name was Margaret is also confirmed in the nuncupative
will of Robert Constable proved on 8 Jan 1401 [4].

So that seems perfectly straightforward, Sir Robert Constable of
Flamborough, married Margaret Skipwith, daughter of Sir William
Skipwith, of Ormesby, Lincolnshire, Justice of the Common Pleas [ -
ca. 1398] and his wife Alice Hiltoft.

The problem is, that Sir William Skipwith and Alice had another
daughter called Margaret, who married firstly Hugh de Cressy and
secondly Henry Vavasour of Hazlewood. That this daughter was called
Margaret and that she was was their daughter is shown in the will of
Henry Vavasour [proved Mar 1413], where he leaves gifts to John
Skipwith and Alice Skipwith and he names his wife Margaret as executor
[5]. In Margaret's will [6], [proved Aug 1416] she leaves gifts to
John Skipwith, her mother Alice and to her brothers Thomas and
Patrick. John, Thomas and Patrick are shown as sons of Sir William
Skipwith and Alice in pedigrees of the family [7].

So that seems also perfectly straightforward, Sir Henry Vavasour of
Hazlewood, married Margaret Skipwith, daughter of Sir William
Skipwith, of Ormesby, Lincolnshire, Justice of the Common Pleas [ -
ca. 1398] and his wife Alice Hiltoft.

So unless Sir William Skipwith had two daughters named Margaret, which
I suppose is possible, but unlikely, one of these identifications is
incorrect. On balance, I'd say the Margaret Skipwith who married
Alexander Surtees and Robert Constable was not a daughter of William
Skipwith, but she does seem to have some Skipwith connection. When her
first husband died, leaving her with a son Thomas Surtees, aged 20
weeks, his marriage was given by the king to William Skipwith [8]

Does anyone have any comments or further evidence concerning the
identifications of these two Margarets?

Regards,

John
in KL

[1] Sir Robert Counstable, Knight m. .... doghter of William Skypwyth
[Visitation of Yorkshire in 1563 & 1564, Harleian Society, Vol 16,
London, 1881, p 64]

[2] Sir Robert Constable m. ..... dau. of Sir William Skipwith
[Visitation of Yorkshire in 1584/5 & 1612, Joseph Foster, London,
1875, p 178]

[3] 20 Jan 1384: Pardon, for 40s. paid to the king by Robert
Conestable of Flaynburgh to him and Margaret, late the wife of
Alexander Surtays, tenant in chief for intermarrying without licence.
[Calendar of Patent Rolls, Richard 2, Vol 2, p 381]

[4] "Margaretae uxori suae" [Testamenta Eboracensia - Part II, Surtees
Society, Vol 30, Durham, 1855, p 264]

[5] "Item lego Johanni de Skipwith unum equum nigrum. .. Item lego
Aliciae de Skipwith unum annulum de auro cum uno diamawnde. Residuum -
Margaretm uxori meae --- Executores - Margareta uxor."[Testamenta
Eboracensia - Part I, Surtees Society, Vol 4, Durham, 1835, p 361]

[6] "Item lego Johanni de Skipwith omnia recia mea pro vulpibus et
piscibus capiendis. Item Aliciae matri meae annulum meum de auro
sanctificatum. Item Thomae fratri meo unum owche de auro optimum. Item
Patricio fratri meo xls". [Testamenta Eboracensia, Part I, Surtees
Society, Vol 4, Durham, 1835, p 362]

[7] Lincolnshire Pedigrees, Vol III, Harleian Society, Vol 52, London,
1904, p 894-5]

[8] 30 Oct 1381: Grant (commisimus) to William de Skipwyth, knight, of
the marriage of Thomas, son and heir of Alexander Surteys, deceased,
tenant in chief, a minor in the king's custody, paying therefor 20
marks at the Exchequer; if Thomas die a minor without heir of his
body, the grantee is to have the marriage of his sister Alice.
[Calendar of Patent Rolls, Richard 2, Vol 2, p 45]

I have that the Margaret Skipwith wife of Robert Constable was the
sister of Sir William Skipwith who married Alice Hiltoft. They are
both children of Sir William Skipwith and Margaret Fitz Simon; and
granchildren of John Skipwith and Margaret de la Lynde (paternally)
and Sir Ralph Fitz Simon (maternally, wife unknown).

I had considered that, but the Sir William Skipwith who married
Margaret Fitz Simon died in 10 Ed III - about 1322, so it's unlikely
that his daughter would be marrying and having children in the 1380's.

The source for his death date is Kimber's Baronetage of England, which
is not all that reliable, but I don't have any other at the present
time.

Thanks,

John

10 Edward III would 1337, no? He reigned 1327-1377? In any case,
John P. Ravilious is (IMHO) the guru for all things Yorkshire and I'm
sure I got this from him.

Martin


.

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