: King William the Conqueror's arms




From: mjcar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: King's Kinsfolk: King William the Conqueror's kinsman, King Edward the Confessor
Date: 30 Mar 2006 12:05:22 -0800


mjcar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx schrieb:

> "Bob Turcott" wrote:
>
> > Give me a source as to why you would think anything found on william the
> > conquer coats of arms would be unreliable on this royal subject.
> > can you back this up?
>
> Try any basic text on the history of heraldry - e.g. Fox-Davis.

Eek: or "Fox-Davies", even.

Better still, Wood*** [now Norroy & Ulster King of Arms] and Robinson
have this to say in "The Oxford Guide to Heraldry", Oxford University
Press, 1990 edition, p 198, under the heading "The Royal Arms of Great
Britain":

"The arms of the kingdom of England, gules three lions passant guardant
or, are the most ancient [of the arms of the three Kingdoms that make
up Great Britain], and date back to the reign of King Richard I in the
late twelfth century... He was the first English king to use the three
lions, though from the time of Matthew Paris in the thirteenth century
these arms were 'backdated' and sometimes attributed to all the English
Kings from William the Conqueror onwards. It seems likely that the use
of arms by the Kings of England goes back to further than Henry II, the
father of Richard I."

Michael Andrews-Reading

how about this one MJ
There are several sources that have identified inheritable symbols being used as far back as the 9th century. It is now fairly well acknowledged that heraldry as we know it was an advent that stemmed from the latter days of the reign of Charlemagne and had its roots in Flanders. There is evidence of it in the Bayeux Tapestry in the gonfannons, standards and pennons that identify specific individuals. Eustace, Count of Bologne was represented by his eldest son (Eustace II) who bore the device of the Counts of Bologne (Or three Torteaux) and the Papal Banner borne by one of William's ensigns shows Argent a Jerusalem Cross - the original arms of the later Kings of Jerusalem, the first two of whom (Godfrey and Baldwin)were the sons of Eustace Ii of Bologne.
The acknowledgement of heraldry earlier than 1066 is made mention in The Oxford Guide to Heraldry (Wood*** & Robinson 1988) based on the hypothesis published by Beryl Platts in her 1980 book 'Origins of Heraldry'.

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