RE: Daughters of the 10th Lord Clifford

Brad Verity wrote:

I agree. I do feel though that the identification of Dame Elizabeth
Bowes and Dame Margaret Radcliffe as daughters of Anne St. John is less
solid than those of the other daughters who do appear in the pedigree
of c.1505. Because that information was gathered during the lifetime
of the 10th Lord Clifford, and possibly even during the lifetime of
Anne St. John, it seems unusual that two daughters who were known to
survive infancy and go on to marry, were left off of the pedigree.
Especially when the other children listed match up so well to known
chronology and appear to be, unusually, listed in order of birth.

Some more evidence concerning the marriage and children of the 10th Lord Clifford.

Per the c.1505 Henry VII Relations pedigrees, the children of the 10th Lord Clifford and Anne St. John were:

1) Jane
2) Mabill
3) Henry, son and heir
4) Anne
5) Thomas
6) Alianor

By the 1563/4 Visitation of Yorkshire, there were still six children, but they had become:

1) Henry Fyrst Erl of Comberland
2) Anne wyff to Sir Raff Bowes
3) Jone to ..... Ratclyffe
4) Mary to Sir Jervys Clyfton
5) Mabel to Sir William Fytz William, Erl of Southampton

Eleanor had disappeared, replaced by a Mary.

In the 17th century, Lady Anne Clifford wrote an account of her Clifford ancestors, and enumerated the children of the 10th Lord Clifford and Anne St. John as [from "Clifford Letters of the Sixteenth Century" edited by A.G. Dickens, Surtees Society, Vol. 172, 1962, pp. 130-131]:

1) Henry Clifford their eldest son born A.D. 1493
2) Thomas Clifford the 2d son
3) Mabel Clifford their eldest daughter marryed to William FitzWilliams Earl of Southampton
4) Eleanor Clifford, 2d daughter & 4th child, married to Markenfield
5) Anne Clifford, 3d daughter and 5th child, was married to Robert Metcalf
6) Joan Clifford, 4th daughter & 6th child, was marryed to Sir Ralph Bowes of Areton

The first names are the same as those from the c.1505 pedigree. There continues to be two sons and four daughters. Mary has disappeared, Eleanor is back. Marriages to Clifton and Ratcliffe have also disappeared.

Of the marriages given in the 1563/4 and 17th century pedigrees, Mabel's to the earl of Southampton and Eleanor's to Markenfield are confirmed by contemporary records. The Ratcliffe marriage is also confirmed, but the first name of Lord Clifford's daughter was 'Margaret', not 'Jone'. The Clifton marriage is confirmed, but the first name was 'Anne' not 'Mary'. The Bowes marriage is confirmed only through Visitation pedigrees - no marriage license date, or letters seem to have survived. Per evidence in Bowes and Tonge (the second husband) pedigrees, the Clifford daughter's first name was 'Elizabeth', not 'Anne' or 'Joan'. The Metcalf marriage given by Lady Anne Clifford is an error - there was no Robert Metcalfe who could have married a daughter of the 10th Lord Clifford in any Metcalfe pedigrees and records.

What remains consistent in all three pedigrees above is the number of children of the 10th Lord Clifford and Anne St. John: two sons and four daughters.

Could two of the daughters have been illegitimate? Lady Anne Clifford has this to say about the marriage of the 10th Lord and Anne St. John:

"But towards the latter end, her husband was unkind to her, & had 2 or 3 children (base) by another woman, so as by reason of that & of her husbands taking part with some of the Commons about taxes against the said King Henry the 7th in the latter end of his reign, he was in some disgrace with the said King. And by the charter of the Prior of Gisborne it appears this excellent & virtuous Lady Anne St. John, Lady Clifford, was alive the 12th of May, in the 21st year of Henry the 7th [1506], but certain it is, she dyed within a while after."

The marriage troubles of the 10th Lord and Anne St. John are confirmed by Michael K. Jones & Malcolm G. Underwood, "The King's Mother: Lady Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond and Derby" (Cambridge, 1992), pp. 163-164:

"The hospitality afforded these ladies also revealed Margaret's strong sense of family obligation. Anne, Lady Clifford, who was put up with two of her daughters, was the daughter of Margaret's half-brother John St John. In 1493 [sic?] she had married the eccentric Henry Lord Clifford, the so-called 'shepherd-lord', who had avoided political retribution in the Yorkist period by adopting the disguise of a peasant-farmer. Restored to his estates by Henry VII he seldom came to court but led a strange, reclusive existence in his tower of Bardon, near Bolton, where he devoted his energies to a study of astronomy. The marriage was evidently not a success. Anne's chaplain explored the possibility of a separation, travelling to court to discuss the matter with the king and Lady Margaret. Margaret offered placement within her household. The chaplain then appealed to Richard Fox, bishop of Durham, for his assistance in the matter, 'that nowe with your help I trust she shall come up and attend upon my Lady.' [footnote: SJC, D102.10, p. 138, 142-3; 'CP', III, 294; 'Letters of Richard Fox, 1486-1527', ed. P.S. and H.M. Allen (Oxford, 1929), 18.]"

The possibility that Dame Elizabeth Bowes and Dame Margaret Ratcliffe were illegitimate still cannot be ruled out.

Cheers, ----------Brad

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