Re: Hubert de Burgh's alleged Pouchard ancestry
- From: "CED" <leesmyth@xxxxxxx>
- Date: 9 Jan 2006 01:12:07 -0800
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
> In an earlier post, we determined that Earl Hubert de Burgh (died 1243)
> was kinsman (not nephew) of Alice Pouchard, wife of Sir Robert de
> Nerford, and daughter and co-heiress of John Pouchard, of Tuddenham,
> Norfolk, by his wife, Itta.
To the Newsgroup:
In which of the earlier posts did we establish that Hubert de Burgh was
a kinsman of Alice Pouchard?
Richardson should point out specifically which post did establish the
relationship (some relationship of any kind). He seems now to be
trying to do by the side door what he found that he could not do by the
front door with his post of O2 January - that is to reinterpret the
many posts on this subject to say what we refused to let him say with a
so-salled "ancient" document.
Why is Richardson so determined to create a relationship between Hubert
de Burgh and the Pouchard family? He should at least let us know his
> Besides Tuddenham and Brunham, Norfolk, it appear that Wreningham,
> Norfolk was another Pouchard family property. I find that Lady Alice
> (Pouchard) de Nerford gave a 1/2 share in the advowson of that place to
> Creake Abbey in the period, 1225-1230 [Reference: Bedingfield, ed., A
> Cartulary of Creake Abbey (Norfolk Rec. Soc. 35) (1966): 4].
> Presumably the other half share of the advowson was inherited by
> Alice's sister, Maud (Pouchard) de Belhouse. The source, Book of Fees,
> shows that Alice (Pouchard) de Nerford held 1 knight's fee in
> Wreningham, Norfolk in 1232-1233, and that her son, Richard de Nerford,
> held 1/2 knight's fee in this place in 1242-1243 [Reference: Book of
> Fees, 2 (1923): 905, 1466]. Both Alice Pouchard and her son, Sir
> Richard de Nerford, held Wreningham under the honour of Wormegay, which
> was held in this time period by Earl Hubert de Burgh in right of his
> 1st wife, Beatrice de Warenne.
> Interestingly, there is a rather complete record of later Norfolk
> manorial lords dated 1316, which was published in 1952 in Norfolk
> Archaeology, vol. 30. This list shows the following major land owners
> at Wreningham (with Nayland), Norfolk in 1316 to be:
> Sir John de Thorp
> Prior of Wymundham
> Richard de Belhous
> Emma de la Penne
> Abbot of Crek
> Presumably the Abbot of Creake obtained his interest in Wreningham,
> Norfolk by gift from Lady Alice (Pouchard) de Nerford. As we can see,
> the Nerford interest in Wreningham has seemingly disappeared by 1316.
> The interest of Alice Pouchard's sister and co-heiress, Maud de
> Belhouse, in Wreningham is presumably represented in 1316 by a certain
> Richard de Belhous.
> Elsewhere, I find that Sir John de Burgh (son and heir of Earl Hubert
> de Burgh) enfeoffed a Thomas de Belhouse and his wife, Floria, with the
> manor of Stanway, Essex in 1273-1274. I assume that Thomas de Belhouse
> was related somehow to Maud (Pouchard) de Belhouse, sister of Lady
> Alice (Pouchard) de Nerford. My files indicate that this Thomas de
> Belhouse, of Stanway, Essex, is the lineal ancestor of at least three
> 17th Century New World colonists listed below.
> 1. William Clopton.
> 2. Thomas Culpeper.
> 3. Elizabeth & John Harleston.
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
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