Re: Gospatric Fitz Orm's mother, Gravelda of Dunbar

Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
>
> > Using these records, the following chronology can be constructed which
> > harmonizes well with the facts as we have them:
> >
> > 1. Gravelda (or Gurwelda, Gimilda) of Dunbar, born before 1075, minor
> > and unmarried at her father's death in 1075. She married Orm Fitz
> > Ketel, who I believe was an adult in 1094.
> >
> > 2. Gospatric Fitz Orm, born say 1110, died c. 1177. He married Egliva
> > Engaine, daughter of Ranulph Engaine (living after 1122) and Ibrea (or
> > Ybri) de Trevers.
>
>
> Here we have it - _your_ chronology and she is in her late 30s when she
> has her oldest son. How often is that the case for a woman at this period?
>
> taf

A point of clarification. You've stated above that Gospatric Fitz Orm
was Gravelda's "oldest son." (your words). As you are well aware, due
to the high infant mortality in the medieval time period, there is
often a big difference in age between "oldest son" and "oldest
surviving son." In this case, due to the lack of records, I think it
is best that we refer to Gospatric as Gravelda's oldest known surviving
son.

Also, with the new dating of Gospatric Fitz Orm's charter to St. Bees
Priory at c. 1150, I've revised the birth estimates of Gospatric Fitz
Orm and his son, Thomas, to be c. 1105/1110 and c. 1130 respectively.
I think these dates are very conservative. One source I cited
yesterday, for example, places Gospatric Fitz Orm's birth at c. 1100
[Reference: Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. & Arch.
Soc.n.s. 14, chart facing pg. 432].

All things considered, the death date of Gospatric Fitz Orm's
grandfather, Gospatric I, Earl of Dunbar, seems rather iffy to me. The
authoritative Complete Peerage says he "died about 1075" but this is
just an estimated death date. Truth is: No one knows for sure when
Gospatric I died. If he lived after 1075, it would change some of our
assumptions.

I have it from one source which I have not verified that Gospatric Fitz
Orm's father, Orm Fitz Ketel, was living in 1094. I have not verified
the date, but it seems acceptable. If we assumed that Orm Fitz Ketel
and his wife, Gravelda of Dunbar, were married by 1094, it doesn't pose
a problem for me that their eldest surviving son, Gospatric Fitz Orm,
was born c. 1105/1110.

Frankly, given the obvious lacuna in the records from 1075 to 1150, I
think we're doing very good to have the facts we do. I'm sure you
agree.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net

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