Re: Gospatric Fitz Orm's mother, Gravelda of Dunbar

Dear Newsgroup ~

As a further followup to my earlier posts, I had the opportunity today
of checking a few sources today which relate to the early history of
Cumberland.

Regarding my estimated birthdate of c. 1110 for Gospatric Fitz Orm, I
have a couple of additional comments to add to the discussion. In my
earlier post, I dated one of the charters of Gospatric Fitz Orm to St.
Bees Priory as being in the period, 1138-1157. I find elsewhere that
Gospatric Fitz Orm and William Engaine both witnessed a charter dated
c. 1150 to Holm Cultram issued by Earl Henry son of King David I of
Scotland [Reference: Grainger and Collingwood, The Register and Records
of Holm Cultram, 1929, pp. 91-92]. The charter was also witnessed by
Athelwold, Bishop of Carlisle, who held that position from 1133-1156.
Inasmuch as Gospatric Fitz Orm and William Engaine are associated
together in this charter which is dated c. 1150, I think a date of c.
1150 is also reasonable to assign to Gospatric's own charter to St.
Bees Priory. As indicated earlier, the St. Bees charter was witnessed
by William Engaine and by Gospatric Fitz Own's own sons, Thomas, Adam,
and Robert. If so, I think we can likewise safely assign a revised
birth date of no later than c. 1130 to Gospatric's eldest son, Thomas.

As far as Gospatric Fitz Orm's own birthdate is concerned, I find that
in a pedigree chart of the Fitz Orm family in Transactions of the
Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. & Arch. Soc.n.s. 14, pg. 432, Gospatric
Fitz Orm is assigned a birthdate of c. 1100. However, unless other
evidence is forthcoming, I'm prepared to accept a birthdate of c.
1105-1110 for Gospatric Fitz Orm himself, based on the revision of
Gospatric's son, Thomas' birthdate as being c. 1130.

With respect to Robert Fitz Orm, who Ms. Guido assigns as a brother to
Gospatric Fitz Orm, Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq.
& Arch. Soc.n.s. 14, pg. 3 states "There does not seem to be one
[charter] existing in which he is actually given as "fratre meo" by
Gospatrick, but we have not all of Gospatrick's charters, and therefore
not all the possible and usual varieties of description." In other
words, the evidence is lacking to prove that Robert Fitz Orm was the
brother of Gospatric Fitz Orm. For now, I'm content to assign
Gospatric Fitz Orm only one brother, Michael, who is specifically
called Gospatric's brother in one of Gospatric's charters to Wetheral
Priory [Reference: J.E. Precott, Registry of the Priory of Wetheral
(1897), pg. 249]. Beyond that I think is pressing the evidence.

With respect to the first St. Bees charter in which Ebrea occurs as
witness for Gospatric Fitz Orm, I find that Rev. Frederick W. Ragg in
his article, "De Culwen," has translated the witness list of this
charter to read "Eglina wife of him, Gospatrik, Ebrea her mother."
[Reference: Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. & Arch.
Soc.n.s. 14, pg. 383]. So we find another party who has translated
the witness list to mean that Ebrea was Gospatric Fitz Orm's wife's
mother, not his own mother. I believe Rev. Ragg has translated this
Latin passage correctly.

With respect to the document known as "Chronicon Cumbrie" which records
that Gospatric Fitz Orm's father, Orm Fitz Ketel, was granted various
manors in marriage with Gravelda, sister of Waltheof son of Earl
Gospatric, I find that there have been three (not two) versions of this
document in print, they being Monasticon Anglicanum, 3: 584, Register
of St. Bees, pp. 530-533, and Register of the Priory of Wetheral.
Among other statements made in this document, it is alleged that
Waltheof son of Earl Gospatric gave Wigton to Odard de Logis, alias
Odard the Sheriff. This land grant is confirmed by evidence presented
in Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. & Arch. Soc.n.s.
27, pg. 43. The document also states that Alan Fitz Waltheof gave
Torpenhow with its advowson to Uchtred Fitz Fergus, lord of Galloway,
with "Gornella" his sister. This statement is likewise confirmed by
Hedley, Northumberland Families, pg. 241, who states that Uchtred Fitz
Fergus and Gunnilda his wife gave the church of Torpenhow to the canons
of Holy Rood at Edinburgh, citing Liber Cartaram Sanctae Crucis,
Bannatyne Club, pp. 19-20. So two statements made in the Chronicon
Cumbie are verified as being accurate.

Regarding Gravelda of Dunbar's parentage, it is noted in at least two
sources that neither she or her son, Gospatric Fitz Orm, nor two of her
younger sisters shared in the inheritance of the family estates on the
death of Gravelda's nephew, Alan Fitz Waltheof. Alan Fitz Waltheof was
living in 1139, and is thought to have been alive as late as 1150. He
was certainly dead before 1157. Rather, the entire inheritance went to
Alan Fitz Waltheof's first cousin, William Fitz Duncan (died 1157), who
was the son of Etheldreda, the sister of Alan's father, Waltheof.
Hedley, Northumberland Families, pg. 241, assumes that Waltheof's
sister, Etheldreda, was Waltheof's sole legitimate sister, and that
Waltheof's two brothers, Gospatric and Dolfin, were both illegitimate.
He also suspects that Gravelda and her two sisters, Octreda and
Matilla, were also illegitimate. However, Transactions of the
Cumberland & Westmorland Antiq. & Arch. Soc.n.s. 29, pp. 70-71 has a
different take regarding the family inheritance. It states "Descent
was traced from Waldeve's son, Alan ... and consequently the nearest
heir male of the whole blood was Etheldred's son, William [Fitz
Duncan]." In other words, Etheldreda's son, William Fitz Duncan,
inherited Alan Fitz Waltheof's estates, he being the heir of the whole
blood, to the exclusion to Alan Fitz Waltheof's other uncles and aunts
(including Gravelda), who were heirs of the half-blood. The author
adds the following explanatory comment: "The rules of descent prevalent
at that period differed from those in force at the present day and are
stated in Blackstone's Commentaries, edit. Christian, 1799, vol. ii,
pg. 223." I assume this passage in Blackstone concerns itself with the
laws relating to inheritance of the full blood, to the exclusion of
heirs of the half-blood. If it can be shown that this custom prevailed
in this time period, then I think a good case could be made that
Gospatric Fitz Orm's mother, Gravelda, was half-sister to Waltheof and
Etheldreda, not their full-sister.

Regarding the gift of Ranulph Engaine and his wife, Ibrea de Trevers,
to Carlisle Priory, it seems virtually certain that Burns and
Nicholson must have seen a transcript of their original charter to
Carlisle Priory, as I find that the published transcript of King Henry
II's confirmation charter states only that this grant was the gift of
"Ranulph Engaine and his heir," not Ranulph Engaine and his wife,
Ibrea, as Burns and Nicholson state. Also the confirmation charter of
King Henry II makes no mention of Hugh de Morville's charter which
confirmed Ranulph and Ibrea's grant to Carlisle, which second charter
is mentioned by Burns and Nicholson. For the confirmation charter of
King Henry II of various gifts to Carlisle Priory, see Dugdale,
Monasticon Anglicanum, 6(1) (1830): 144. The fact that Ranulph and
Ibrea's son, William, joined them in the grant to Carlisle Priory
indicates that William was of the sufficient age to witness and consent
to his parents' charter. Once again, we have an indication which makes
it virtually impossible for Ibrea de Trevers to be the mother of
Gospatrick Fitz Orm. For mention of other grants to Wetheral Priory by
Ranulph Engaine, his wife, Ibrea (or Ybri), and their son and heir,
William, see Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 3 (1821): 591-592.

At this point, I'd very much like to hear from someone as to what Dr.
Katherine Keats-Rohan has to say about these people in her book,
Domesday Descendants. If someone has a copy of Keats-Rohan's book, I'd
appreciate it greatly if they would post the information regarding
these families here on the newsgroup. I believe it's time we heard
from Dr. Keats-Rohan.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net

.

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