Re: Thorne and Hender [was: Fall issue of _The Genealogist_]
- From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 7 Oct 2005 05:58:48 -0700
It's all very well to sniff and tsk about, with supercilious ideas of
the quality of others' research ... until it turns out that they were
actually more sensible than you.
1. Mr. Fradd had researcher Ken Smallbone confirm that the will of
Thomas Thorne of Yardley Hastings mentions "my son Hender," rather than
"Pender" (as supplied by Mary Kingsbury Talcott in NEHGR vol. 66).
2. An M.I. is more likely to be correct than a visitation, especially
one that has undergone the edition of Col. Vivian.
The M.I. of John and Jane (Thorne) Hender does show the arms of Thorne
of Thorne (Devon). I suggest that the Thorne family of Yardley
Hastings did not use a coat of arms at that time (or that the
Henders--far away in Cornwall--did not remember what the proper coat of
arms was, and just substituted those of a local family).
"John Higgins" wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Brandon" <starbuck95@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:48 AM
> Subject: Fall issue of _The Genealogist_
> [snip of Lenthall material]
> > On page 250 is an addition to Brandon Fradd's article on the "Ancestry
> > of Thomas Thorne, Grandfather of Thomas1 Dudley" in the last issue.
> > Fradd concludes that "ThomasB and Mary (Purefoy) Thorne had yet another
> > daughter, Jane, baptismal date unknown, who married John Hender of
> > Botreaux Castle, co. Cornwall, esq." See my posting, "Another sister
> > for Susanna (Thorne) Dudley," of Jan. 2005: http://tinyurl.com/cxcg6 .
> > If you go to Leo's great website, http://www.genealogics.org , and
> > enter the name "Hender," you'll come up with only one entry, that for
> > Frances Hender, wife of Richard Robartes, 1st Baron Robartes of Truro.
> > As shown in my posting and Fradd's note, this Frances was a daughter of
> > John and Jane (Thorne) Hender of Botreaux Castle, per their M.I.:
> > "Katherine ye eldest [daughter] married unto John Molesworth, Esqr.,
> > his Maties surveiour-General of this county, Francis ye second espoused
> > unto Richard Robartes, Esqr., now high shrief ther.; Mary ye third
> > coupled unto Elice Hele, Esqr., learned in ye lawes, & Trea: of ye
> > Temple; & Elizabeth ye fourth affianced in marriage unto Mr. Willm.
> > Cotton, sone and heire to ye Right Reverend Father in God William,
> > lord-bishoppe of Exon."
> > If you look at Frances Hender's descendants on Leo's website, you'll
> > see that she is an ancestor of Diana, Princess of Wales, via Hender,
> > Robartes, Lambart, Bayly, Paget, Gordon-Lennox, Bingham, Hamilton, and
> > Spencer. Leo can now include Frances Hender's parents (John and Jane
> > [Thorne] Hender) and could add to her ancestry if he likes: Jane
> > Thorne's parents--Thomas and Mary (Purefoy) Thorne--were also the
> > grandparents of Gov. Thomas Dudley, whose ancestry is traceable on the
> > website.
> This parentage for Jane Thorne, wife of John Hender, is quite interesting -
> not least because a different parentage for her is given in Vivian's edition
> of the Visitations of Devon, p. 727. There she is said, in a pedigree of
> the family of Thorne of Thorne, to be a daughter of Andrew, a second son
> who moved from Devon to Northamptonshire and there married Frances, dau. of
> Nicholas Lelande of Northants. A number of earlier generations are given.
> There appears to be no connection between the family of Thorne of Thorne in
> Devon and the Northamptonshire family which Brandon Fradd refers to as
> "Dorne alias Thorne".
> The monumental inscription of John Hender, quoted by John Brandon in January
> of this year, appeared to specifically indicate Jane Thorne's father. I
> wonder, however, if it's possible that the MI was wrong and the visitation
> pedigree is right. The only other connection proposed between the
> Dorne/Thorne family and Hender is the reference in the will of Thomas Dorne
> alias Thorne to a son possibly named Pender (with no indication as to
> whether this is a surname or a given name) which is suggested should be read
> as Hender. This seems pretty tenuous....
> The ancestry for Jan Thorne proposed by John Brandon is certainly more
> interesting than that in the Devon visitation pedigree, but....
- Fall issue of _The Genealogist_
- From: John Brandon
- Thorne and Hender [was: Fall issue of _The Genealogist_]
- From: "John Higgins"
- Fall issue of _The Genealogist_
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