Re: 1st Earls of Derby - The De Ferrers
- From: jthiggins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ("John Higgins")
- Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:12:16 +0000 (UTC)
I think your chronology difficulty is due to the fact that the connection
between Bohun and Lisley [or Lisle] is a few generations later than you
There is a very extensive article on the Bohuns of Midhurst by the noted
genealogist G. W. Watson in "The Genealogist [new series]" vol. 28 in two
parts, pp. 1-16 and 114-123 with a few addenda at 173-4. It cites numerous
primary sources and includes a pedigree chart which helps to clarify things.
Except for the first generation, this is also shown in the recently
published Magna Carta Ancestry.
In summary, Watson gives the following line:
Sir Frank de Bohun of Midhurst (d. 14 Sept 1273); m. (1) before 21 Sept
1247 Sibyl, 4th dau. of William de Ferrars [sic], Earl of Derby, by his 1st
wife Sibyl, 3rd dau. of William le Mareschal, the elder, Earl of Pembroke.
Sir John de Bohun (d. 28 Sept 1284); m. Joan, only dau. and heir of
Bartholomew de la Chapelle (she was b. Dec 1256 and d. shortly before 23
James de Bohun (b. 3 Feb 1280/1, d. shortly before 30 May 1306); m. (as her
1st spouse) Joan, younger dau. and co-heir of Sir William de Braose [or
Brewes] by his first (unknown) wife; she d. before 23 June 1324.
Sir John de Bohun (bap. 13 Nov 1301, d. 5 Dec 1367); m. (1) before 1326
Isabel, said to have been dau. of Henry Tregoz of Goring, Sussex.
Joan [not Elizabeth] Bohun; m. John de Lisle [or Lisley] of Gatcombe, Isle
of Wight (b. 13 June 1324, d. 31 March 1349).
Watson says this last couple had a son John (dsp 1369) and a daughter
Elizabeth, wife of John de Bramshott [which couple has a considerable number
of living descendants, including Prince William and the several well-known
authors of the family of the Earls of Longford]. Watson says that Joan
Bohun had a sister (not a daughter) named Eva, but does not give her a
husband. I can't confirm the Burford connection, although I believe I've
seen it before.
Hope this helps a bit....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen Carlisle" <helen.carlisle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: 1st Earls of Derby - The De Ferrers
> I have joined this list and would like to say hello to everybody. I have
> enjoyed the volume of activity on the list although have been somewhat
> perplexed at some of the "sparring" that has been going on - but that is
> probably because I have joined in the middle of some debates! I have
> particularly noted the mailings regarding the Stanley family who were the
> 3rd creation of the Earls of Derby.
> I would very much appreciate some pointers on where to look regarding a
> puzzle that is preventing me from acceptiing a family tree at face value
> regarding possible links to the 1st creation of the Earls of Derby, the De
> FERRERS family.
> I have recently received a tree from which "theoretically" my husband
> descends, and which goes back to SYBIL DE FERRERS (daughter of the 5th
> of Derby (1st Creation) who married Sir FRANCIS DE BOHUN sometime around
> Working back from my husband (with dates), this colleague/distant relation
> has linked back to EVA BURFORD who "would appear" to have been born ca.
> Working forward from SYBIL DE FERRARS and FRANCIS DE BOHUN, their
> ELIZABETH, is projected as having married a Sir JOHN LISLEY, and their
> daughter, EVA LISLEY is supposed to have married a Sir JOHN BURFORD.. This
> EVA BURFORD is, therefore, their daughter. She apparently married a
> ROKESLEY around 1470/1480.
> My problem is that my informant has not been able to give me any actual
> dates or time frames for these and these dates are my own calculations
> coupled with some entries from the on-line IGI (I appreciate that thiis is
> not fool-proof by the way).. This means that EVA LISLEY must have been
> born somewhere around 1285 (give or take quite a few years!), but JOHN
> BURFORD appears to have been born ca. 1420. Since we have (by simple
> arithmetic) a difference of some 140 years between husband and wife, my
> little grey cells are telling me that something is wrong here!
> Having queried this with my informant, I have not received any reply and
> they may well be still looking at this anomoly.
> Would anybody be able to shed any light on any of these names, or perhaps
> advise me the best way to solve the problem. Any thoughts would be very
> much appreciated.
> Kind regards and best wishes to all,
- 1st Earls of Derby - The De Ferrers
- From: "Helen Carlisle"
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