Re: Same name siblings
- From: Ian Goddard <goddai01@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:57:34 +0100
singhals wrote:
Ron T wrote:On 30/08/2011 6:56 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:Matt Tompkins wrote:On Aug 28, 11:02 am, Ian Goddard<godda...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:melanie chesnel wrote:Didn't the first name often come from one of the godparents at thatThat certainly seems to be the case some of the time at that period but
time - so maybe two sons with the same godfather or maybe two
seperate godfathers with the same name, which would be likely given
the small pool of first names in use in the 16th century
I've also seen instances where it wasn't. In this particular instance,
of course, sod's law applies and the children would all have been
baptised before the PRs start - likewise any possible deaths&
remarriages.
Even so it must surely make life difficult having two children of the
same name so there must be a compelling reason in terms of the influence
of the godparent or relative being honoured.
In the 16C there was a much more compelling reason that just a desire
by parents to honour an influential godparent. The christening
customs then current actually gave the choice of name to the senior
godparent - most parents had little or no say in the choice - and it
was usual for godparents to bestow their own name. All that most
parents could do to influence the choice was either choose a godparent
likely to be guided by them, or choose one with the right forename!
Melanie is quite right to highlight this as a very likely cause of
same-name siblings in this period.
This custom, for godparents to chose the name, had been prevalent in
the middle ages but in the late 16C was beginning to die out, though
it did not entirely disappear until the beginning of the 18C. I
believe it took longer to disappear up north, especially in the hill
parishes, than down south.
This is enshrined in the catechism which I understand was introduced at
this time.
However I wonder to what extent ideal& reality coincided. There is
certainly some bias towards the godparent's name being given but it's by
no means universal. Also one sees runs of the same name being given to
the eldest son or even of alternation of two names between successive
generations. It certainly looks as if godparents often knew what was
expected of them and did it.
I seem also to remember that Baxter wrote in his book that there were
traditional naming patterns related to naming after grandparents. I
can't remember the details but I do recall that I could not find one
instance in my own lines of it being followed.
(G) I've the rules from 4 naming patterns -- Germanic, Ox-bridge English, below-stairs English, Quaker; I've been told there is a different one for the Scots.
Unless all my folks have more forenames than I've ever found recorded for any of them, none of 'em follow ANY pattern, let alone the allegedly "right" one.
My Yorkshire man, Thomas X is reputedly the son and grandson of Thomas X and brother of Robert; /his/ oldest son, Daniel, is named for his wife's father, who died more than 12 years before the boy's birth; the next son, Michael, is named for no-one visible in the families. Then we get a 4th Thomas.
This family is largely following a pattern which seems to have been standard in the area at the time:
Parents John & Mary (Collier) Goddard
Jonathan 1779 Father's father
George 1781 Mother's father
John 1783 died 1786 Father
Joseph 1785 Father's eldest brother
Betty 1788 Mother's mother
Maria 1791 Mother (more or less)
John 1794 Father - replaces first child of that name
Abel 1798
It does seem to break down a bit after Betty in that I'd expect a Lydia as that should have been John's mother's name. It's possible that if there was a death and remarriage in the previous generation the Lydia wasn't John's mother's name that I've missed. It's also possible that there's a child whose baptism & death I've missed. However it's also possible that the patter was becoming obsolete by the 1790s. Certainly Abel, who was buried the day after he was baptised, doesn't fit at all although it was a name that the Colliers favoured.
One thing I've been trying to find out is whether this pattern has a name.
--
Ian
The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk
.
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