Re: Same name siblings

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:22:34 +1000, Di Mort <allende@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On 1/09/11 1:08 AM, singhals wrote:
Ron T wrote:
On 30/08/2011 6:56 AM, Ian Goddard wrote:
Matt Tompkins wrote:
On Aug 28, 11:02 am, Ian Goddard<godda...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
melanie chesnel wrote:
Didn't the first name often come from one of the godparents at that
time - so maybe two sons with the same godfather or maybe two
seperate godfathers with the same name, which would be likely given
the small pool of first names in use in the 16th century
That certainly seems to be the case some of the time at that period
but
I've also seen instances where it wasn't. In this particular instance,
of course, sod's law applies and the children would all have been
baptised before the PRs start - likewise any possible deaths&
remarriages.

Even so it must surely make life difficult having two children of the
same name so there must be a compelling reason in terms of the
influence
of the godparent or relative being honoured.


In the 16C there was a much more compelling reason that just a desire
by parents to honour an influential godparent. The christening
customs then current actually gave the choice of name to the senior
godparent - most parents had little or no say in the choice - and it
was usual for godparents to bestow their own name. All that most
parents could do to influence the choice was either choose a godparent
likely to be guided by them, or choose one with the right forename!
Melanie is quite right to highlight this as a very likely cause of
same-name siblings in this period.

This custom, for godparents to chose the name, had been prevalent in
the middle ages but in the late 16C was beginning to die out, though
it did not entirely disappear until the beginning of the 18C. I
believe it took longer to disappear up north, especially in the hill
parishes, than down south.

This is enshrined in the catechism which I understand was introduced at
this time.

However I wonder to what extent ideal& reality coincided. There is
certainly some bias towards the godparent's name being given but it's by
no means universal. Also one sees runs of the same name being given to
the eldest son or even of alternation of two names between successive
generations. It certainly looks as if godparents often knew what was
expected of them and did it.


I seem also to remember that Baxter wrote in his book that there were
traditional naming patterns related to naming after grandparents. I
can't remember the details but I do recall that I could not find one
instance in my own lines of it being followed.

(G) I've the rules from 4 naming patterns -- Germanic, Ox-bridge
English, below-stairs English, Quaker; I've been told there is a
different one for the Scots.

Unless all my folks have more forenames than I've ever found recorded
for any of them, none of 'em follow ANY pattern, let alone the allegedly
"right" one.

My Yorkshire man, Thomas X is reputedly the son and grandson of Thomas X
and brother of Robert; /his/ oldest son, Daniel, is named for his wife's
father, who died more than 12 years before the boy's birth; the next
son, Michael, is named for no-one visible in the families. Then we get a
4th Thomas.

Cheryl


Perhaps others have found also, that an eldest son of the eldest son
might carry the same name i.e. John through many generations. A run of
bad luck and early deaths might bring about a change to a different name.
My German ancestors must have named their children (unwillingly?) after
2 or 3 godparents / ancestors (back in Germany perhaps) but nearly all
were known by other names when married, just to confuse the
genealogists (Wilhemina Carolina Dorothea is rather a mouthful).

For what little it's worth, many of my several German (17th, 18th c
Prussia) ancestors named most of their girls after the same favorite
saints, and apparently the middle name was the commonly used one.
Among the boys, naming after father/grandfather or a saint seems about
equally divided, but not as pervasive as with the girls.
--
Don
donsgenes@xxxxxxxxxxx
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Same name siblings
    ... seperate godfathers with the same name, ... by parents to honour an influential godparent. ... My Yorkshire man, Thomas X is reputedly the son and grandson of Thomas X and brother of Robert; /his/ oldest son, Daniel, is named for his wife's father, who died more than 12 years before the boy's birth; the next son, Michael, is named for no-one visible in the families. ...
    (soc.genealogy.britain)
  • Re: Same name siblings
    ... by parents to honour an influential godparent. ... Unless all my folks have more forenames than I've ever found recorded for any of them, none of 'em follow ANY pattern, let alone the allegedly "right" one. ... My Yorkshire man, Thomas X is reputedly the son and grandson of Thomas X and brother of Robert; /his/ oldest son, Daniel, is named for his wife's father, who died more than 12 years before the boy's birth; the next son, Michael, is named for no-one visible in the families. ... Jonathan 1779 Father's father ...
    (soc.genealogy.britain)
  • Re: Same name siblings
    ... seperate godfathers with the same name, ... by parents to honour an influential godparent. ... Thomas X is reputedly the son and grandson of Thomas X ...
    (soc.genealogy.britain)
  • Re: Same name siblings
    ... desire by parents to honour an influential godparent. ... being given to the eldest son or even of alternation of two names ... I've the rules from 4 naming patterns -- Germanic, ... My German ancestors must have named their children ...
    (soc.genealogy.britain)