Re: Apologising for one's ancestors

Kay this forum has people on it who insult and abuse, they have been
quick to start calling people by their nationality in a negative way.
When I first came in it was The American, then it was The Ugly
American. Then anyone who expressed shock at this behaviour was called
a troll and so forth.

I don't understand how you can try to justify any of it. You tell me I
have a problem Kay and I have told you that this isn't the place to
start making personal analysis of people, but you continue to do so. My
research coverage - though I feel no need to explain myself to you - is
extracted from copious numbers of old diaries and journals as well as
contemporary books that draw on such and other works. Most are not NZ
works and some such are and we have many good historians who present
international papers (just in case you think NZ is a little backwater
but I am sure you don't).
One aspect I liked about Damousi's work is that she did not make
judgements.If you look at the conclusion at the back of her book (which
may be available online through Amazon) you will see that she moves
outside of the arguments about whether women were whores or not,
whether they were criminals or skilled labourers, whether they were
respectable or not. In fact she encapsulates the contradictions,
tensions and uncertainties that lie beneath the surface of cultural and
personal expression during the 19th C. "These stories point to ways in
which understandings about sexual and racial difference were crucial
for both the maintenance and disturbance of colonial society and they
suggest the way that these differences proivded a pivot for cultural
anxiety." It is interesting that you try to discredit authors published
by Cambridge University Press, historians with years of experience. Of
course I would not rely on one book - sorry to pop that bubble. I have
a wide range of research interests and I always check thoroughly before
putting anything to publication. I have partly stayed on this forum
because I did learn about ticket of leave, and I did not take issue
with that at all. It was the crowing about it that surprised me, as
though some of you delight in pointing out an error rather than
providing clarification in a generous manner. It is the insults and
abuse I take umbridge with not the skills that some of you obviously
possess.
I have not formulated any particular point of view and have stressed
the need for researchers to be open. Apart from family research you do
not seem to have any experience that is greater than mine but I get the
impression that you are trying to tell me you do - what are your
reasons for turning this into a competition, for deciding very early on
that you have enemies rather than friends? Many forums fail because
they veer into a mass paranoia and I hope that this isn't one of them.
If you look back over my posts Kay you will see that I have not abused
anyone on this site, about the worst that I have said of one of you is
that I have better conversations with my children and I do. As I said
before, they are open and kind.
This is a bit tongue in cheek but I think we do need some help. As
group therapy I would be interested to find out what those members most
fear? Do they realise that they are giving an impression of
one-upmanship? What do they gain from using words like troll and ugly
american (which hardly compares to calling someone by their surname)
and other terms - deranged, or sexual discriminatory comments - which
even though they don't fit are hardly appropriate - on this forum?
What would it be like to post a contribution without any asides? What
would it be like to leave people's personal lives alone much less to
resist from making incorrect judgements? What would life be like if
you stopped posting? What other outlets for expression and what other
social contacts do you have? What do you wish to gain from posting -
information? Sincerely? Or something else?
I agree with Andrew that it would be good to leave it and get on, but
Andrew I think some of us would like an agreement that we will not make
derisory comments about people because of their nationality, creed,
life experience sex etc, otherwise it will be hard to get on. I cannot
just accept such slurs because they are irrational and one healthy way
of keeping people rational is to challenge their irrational statements.
If some of you wish to show that you don't have a problem of
obssessive compulsiveness, you will be able to ask these questions,
change your behaviour and start posting with more grace. Think of the
gains.

Kay Robinson wrote:
On 6 Jul 2006 02:48:58 -0700, "danny boy" <janeqatar@xxxxxxxxx>
sharpened a new qull and scratched:

This is what I mean Liz - you are now saying I am not a decent person
and before you stated that I am the same mental age as my kids. I am
tempted to make a remark along the lines of anal retentiveness
comparisons but am struggling my way out of it.

Rhetoric snipped

You do have a problem Jane. From the very start you came into this
thread, not to discuss genealogy, more to defend a troll, later two
trolls, and not only defend, but to suggest racism abounds among
regular posters to this group, apparently not knowing the difference
between race and nationality.

When, eventually, you do turn to serious genealogical discussion, and
get help and advice from those you've previously abused, you turn and
attack them for daring to suggest you may be wrong!

If you really want to study the history of women and their treatment
in past years, you should be looking to contemporary sources, as
historians are supposed to do, rather than modern-day interpretations
written with bias.

If you leave your education in history to the TV-historians and
popular history writers of today, you'll miss out so much and fail to
grasp the whole picture. Concentrating on 'snapshot' history, without
putting it in context won't teach you much.

Stop criticising those who want to help, and are willing to do so,
despite your defense of the indefensible.

Kay

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All replies to newsgroup thank you
--------------------------------------------
A good end cannot sanctify evil, nor must
we ever do evil that good may come of it.
Force may subdue, but Love gains, and he
that forgives first wins the laurel.

William Penn 1644-1718
-----------------------------------------
Kay Robinson
Give all you can, Take only what you need

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