Re: women are the anti-feminists
- From: "Nick (Nick Levinson)" <do_not_e-mail_me_here@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 27 Sep 2005 10:35:01 -0400
Rick, you wrote:
* * * * *
I am finding it hard to appreciate that "oppression" has been
"internalized", and I apologize for insisting on some cognitive
explanation when it may well be psychological. There's no argument that
it is emotional!
* * * * *
We learn from each other; but, more specifically, from whom? From those
we trust as sources. Consider how often a boy has questions that he's
sure his mother can't answer but that his father can. Throughout life
and adulthood we experience issues of trust and distrust between
friends who expected wider trust and yet are surprised at being trusted
as sources. Epistemology is complex.
We often trust each other because of gender, or, more specifically,
because of a sense of shared experience and shared values that makes a
same-gender mentor's answers likelier to be useful. A Christian priest
would generally be unwilling to trust a rabbi or an imam for a proper
interpretation of a passage in the old testament. A womon, quite apart
from feminism or modernity, asking a man for an opinion on what to wear
to a formal dinner or a disco can expect very different answers based
on gender, because based on the differnce in experience associated with
gender.
Part of what womyn learn from each other, and especially as grrls, is
how to relate to men and to society at large. We who are men might
describe a different model, but here's an example where men's opinions
are almost meaningless quite apart from feminism: A womon asking a man
about wearing makeup is likelier to be told that there's no need for
any; but she understands that she'll be reacted to differently if she
follows that advice, and that men might prefer the makeup but not say
so or not realize it until she does it (or doesn't).
Critically to feminism, as females negotiate a world populated by males
who hold the bulk of the power in human societies but don't hold 100%
of it, womyn learn where they'll be left relatively alone (e.g., the
kitchen and raising small children, but with no guarantees). Then, when
some womyn want to break out of those limits, and they consult with
others, the others will inform them that they can't or shouldn't do
that, because the men won't like it or because it's not natural or
because it doesn't work or because it's unnecessary. Some who ask
believe this; for some who ask, this advice works; and some break out
anyway, but they may be viewed as troublemakers by those who counseled
them against standing out, and may be resented for discarding their
advice and, worse, for succeeding, leading those who resent this to
step up efforts to keep others from going wayward.
You wrote:
* * * * *
But what can be said or done - just wait another generation?
* * * * *
It depends. Some of it has taken centuries; while society is speeding
through its development, some of it is regressive. Other changes are
much faster. We can't pressure, but neither should we be silent
everywhere. Often, we should just listen and read. Being listened to by
itself can be very empowering. The key is to leave control in a
female's hands as we would leave it in a male's, even if she sometimes
errs in using that control. Mistakes are almost inevitable, and most of
them are recoverable and temporary. And books and articles that come
from writers who pour out what they know save us from interrogating
friends for hours on end. Books and articles reach across cultures that
our friends may not even know.
-- Nick
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- References:
- women are the anti-feminists
- From: Rick Merrill
- Re: women are the anti-feminists
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- Re: women are the anti-feminists
- From: Rick Merrill
- Re: women are the anti-feminists
- From: Megan
- Re: women are the anti-feminists
- From: Rick Merrill
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- Re: women are the anti-feminists
- From: Rick Merrill
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