Re: Thai poor can't pay rich prices to save their lives? tough sh*t, hints Minister Chaiya

On Feb 17, 9:27 pm, "maxwell" <mmmaxw...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote ..."maxwell" wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
"maxwell" wrote:
Tchiowa blew bullshit of the ad hominem variety:
<~>
. . .avoiding the substance of argument shows the paucity of its
propaganda.
The substance of the argument is that your solution is bankrupt and will

cause more harm in the future than the short-term small-scale good it does
now. You avoid that argument.

Your _claim_ that CL providing will cause more harm in the future relies

on unproven premises,

No, my claim relies on a basic understanding of economics and how the market
works.

~Your claim embodies presumptions that part with the actual practices of
drug companies.

~While the suffering and premature deaths of POOR Thai are ever-present NOW.

And the suffereing of other poor Thai was yesterday. Had Thailand and
other countries followed your policy the poor Thai today would still
be suffering and dying and so would the rich and middle class and
nothing could be done about it because the drugs you're clamoring for
now wouldn't exist.

And the suffering of the poor Thai will exist tomorrow. And if
everyone follows your policy today the drugs that would have been
available for them will not exist.

I'm not trying to "ridicule" your personal experiences. I'm pointing
out that your *CLAIIM* of personal experience is comletely
contradictory to everything else you've ever posted. You've repeatedly
posted about your alleged connections to high-society

~Liar. Professors are no way hi-so.

You're trying to claim that "professors" are the only elite you've
claimed to associate with? If so, then you're lying. Do I have to dig
up your posts to prove it.

Plus, I didn't use the perjorative "hi-so". You did, in an attempt to
distort what I said.

in Thailand and repeatedly belittled the poor in Thailand

~Liar--that's your spin on my claim that the poor have been hoodwinked by
PPP/TRT.

Meaning that they are too stupid to see beyond the propaganda as you
claim to be. Thus saying you are smarter than they are.

The cashier, where my farang self paid not much over a mere 1000bt

You were telling us you had "personal experience" with the 30 baht scheme.
You cite now your "personal experience" with the 30 baht
scheme.

~With Public hospital dispensary, and particularly, with a young Thai
physician's information as to what was available there.

But that isn't what you said. You said you had personal experience
with the 30 baht scheme hospitals and drugs *including* cancer drugs.
Your words: " The 'high-priced' stuff is NOT being dispensed, and not
only for cancer and heart drugs, but even for a number of MUCH-cheaper
drugs, such as a number of antibiotics needed for resistant
infections, and I know this first hand, from public hospitals,"

You, as a foreigner, aren't eligible for the 30 baht scheme, so this
experience has *NOTHING* to do with the 30 baht scheme. Why did you lie?

~You really are desperate.
Are you pretending to be stupid or are you really that stupid?
Emphasis added below:> The dispensary itself >>>>did not stock the better antibiotics<<<< and
thus >>>any patient on 30bt, or any other government plan<<<<, would still >>>>>need to
go private to obtain. <<<

First, your experience was about antibiotics and it is quite common
for hospitals to only stock certain ones. There are many. Your
experience was *NOT* about cancer drugs. Second, you are assuming that
if someone comes in for cancer treatment and they don't have the drugs
in stock they won't bother getting them. Bad assumption. Third, you're
assuming that they way *you* as a foreigner were treated directly
correlates to how a Thai national covered by the insurance scheme
would be treated. Another bad assumption.

Plus, as proven below, your whole "complaint" is phony and
hypocritical.

To say that PPP/TRT is a 'party of the poor' is a promise broken.

*I* don't say that. The poor in Thailand say that.

~SOME of the poor say that.

The *MAJORITY* of poor Thai.

Your intentional ignorance of the fact that a
great many poor in Central and the South do NOT say that

They are not the majority. The minority of Thai people don't respect
the King (many of Chinese descent don't). But the majority do. So it
is completely appropriate to say that the Thai people respect the
King. Same logic.

shows once more
that 'TWAT' has Isaan=Thailand,

No, Isaan=the Majority of poor Thailand. Quit dropping words to
distort what has been said.

while as actions count WAY more than words,
the fact that PPP Helath Minister is scrambling from day one towards Big
Pharma and away from immediate relief of POOR Thai suffering from cancer,
AIDS, heart disease shows the implied promise of universal care if not
outright broken, then damn well en route to being s*it-canned!

Actually the implied promise of universal health care is being met
just as well in Thailand as it is in other countries that you praise.

I have not avoided confronting the _claim_ of future harm.
In previous discussion that you (as usual) prefer to sandbag with OT
ad hominem derision and avoidance of facts, I'd posted annual
reports evidence of Big Pharma profits coming NOT in the main from
developing nations.

First, as stated before, Thailand is *NOT* a developing nation.

~Nor is it but more than a bare shadow of the brilliantly huge profits of Big Pharma.

Then you finally admit that you distorted the CL argument by claiming
Thailand qualifies as a "developing nation". Thank you. Second, as has
been said before (and as you have ignored before) it is not just
"Thailand". Re-read the post about the Prisoner's Dilemma. It's a
standard logic and ethics example.

~Actually what's ludicrous is your insistence that drug companies are
alloting an IMMUTABLE 'X' percentage of profits to R&D and licensing, as if
they had no more discretion to apportion monies between R&D, market
promotion, political action, executive perquisites, shareholder dividends,
stock buybacks, mergers and acquisitions, or any other expense,

I never claimed that. But if you reduce income *all* of those expenses
may have to be reduced. R&D is just one of them.

and had boards populated by hard-coded robots,

Thank you for showing that you don't understand much about
corporations. The board has little to do with these types of
decisions.

and not human beings with DISCRETION
to decide that their political action budgeting devoted to swaying a Western
Big Government toward fattening its profits (or cutting its losses) was no
more immutable than their R&D spending.

Again, thanks for proving who you are by spouting the standard extreme
Left loony line saying that people who run corporations aren't human.

CEOs and managers aren't human, that's your assumption. They don't
have wives and children and grandchildren and brothers and sisters and
parents. They don't care about other people. They are inhuman monsters
and only the flea-bedraggles 60s throwbacks haunting People's Park in
Berkeley are "real" people. Them and Hollywood actors and the elites.
Right?

~BTW, as the trials of new drugs needed for FDA and/or EU licensing are very
costly for the companies, one of the great savings they make is to run
trials in Africa and Asia--and yes, Thailand, which happens to have a better
medical technology and informational base than many other poor nations, and
this goes right under your radar, but not mine, TYVM.

And of course those of you on the Left condemn the drugs companies for
doing the trials in Africa and Asia claiming that they are exploiting
the poor.

You're welcome.

***************

Now, let's try a real example. Instead of trying to say that a
foreigner who doesn't qualify for national health care getting
antibiotics for a knee injury is the same as a citizen who does
qualify for national health care getting cancer drugs let's try
something else.

Let's try comparing a citizen who does qualify for national health
care getting cancer drugs with a citizen who does qualify for national
health care getting cancer drugs.

There is an article in TODAY's IHT about the national health care
scheme in the UK. The article specifically deals with cancer drugs. It
points out that the people in NHS are *NOT* allowed to have access to
the best drugs. Specifically banned. The poor can't get them. The
middle class can't get them. But the rich *can*.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/20/europe/britain.php

(Interesting that the article came out today. It's kind of like God is
getting sick of your continual idiocy.)

(Also note that this is an arm of the NYT, not exactly a bastion of
the Right.)

Now, if you are sincere in condemning PPP and the people who support
the way that they run the 30 baht scheme because it deprives the poor
of access to the best cancer drugs, then you should condemn the people
who support the UK health care scheme because it deprives the poor
*AND THE MIDDLE CLASS* of access to the best cancer drugs. Similar
problems exist in virtually all of the national schemes. Why? Because
that's one of the things that they do in order to save money.

The article also goes on to document enormously long waits for other
treatments (and that those who get private care aren't subject to
those waits). There have also been articles in the past about the 14
month waiting period for heart bypass (as opposed to 10 days in the
US), about the UK courts ordering the national service to pay for
people to go abroad for treatment because of the ridicuolous delays,
and even one a few months ago about waits for dental treatment (not
something the Brits are famous for anyway) being so long that people
have taken to performing "self-extractions" on their teeth.

So let's see you condemn the people who supported that. Now, who was
it who has repeatedly supported those schemes? Hmmm. Hang on. It's
coming. I'll remember in a second. I got it!! It was ***YOU***!!!

Now you could be honest and ethical and admit that your support of
government run health care is wrong. But I'm not counting on it.

Or you could be even more honest and take another long, hard look at
your support of other Socialist philosophies that, just as in the case
of UK health care, create equality not by raising the poor but by
pulling the Middle Class down. But I'm not counting on it.

You could also be honest and admit that given your support for
National Health Care in other places proves that your sudden concern
for access to cancer drugs for the poor in Thailand is pure hypocrisy
and invented by you just to try to condemn the popularly elected
government that was chosen by the Thai people who you believe are too
stuipd to vote. But I'm not counting on it.

Or you could continue to harp and whine and claim you are being
personally insulted and ignore all the proof of how wrong you are and
invent meaningless analogies and all the rest so that you don't have
to look at your own beliefs.

Guess which tack I think you'll take.
.

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