Re: The other side of Thailand: "Bangkok Rude? Get out of here!"


"Nick" <nicknomail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns97F0C046AC4Anickaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"-Phil Clemence" <me@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:12a1j8s8p8hcs73@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

snipped for brevity as i don't have much to add.

Hehe - no, I just fix bathrooms.
And I seldom drink alcohol, but I had a couple of white Russians -
enough to qualify for one stiff drink ;p
True, I can't back any of my theories up. I respect you enough to let
you judge it.
If I loved you I would MAKE you believe it ;)

-Phil Clemence



Nick




There's not much to be judged by me Phil, i'm just letting it sink in a
bit and maybe i will understand it a bit.

I think this pdf file might interest you, it's titled "Slipping Under the
Radar: Advertising and the Mind" it deals with "the power to influence in
the context of recent discoveries in brain science"
ttp://www.psychology.iastate.edu/FACULTY/dgentile/Walsh_Gentile_WHO.pdf

Nick

Thanks, Nick ~
Here is a link - a series of articles. It is long, but someone kindly
highlighted the... uh... the highlights.

http://www.noticeboard.co.za/read.htm

&**Warning - Kahlua / fatigue induced rambling ahead ... continue at you own
peril

I really need to stop trying to explain things that pop into my head.
Half the time I don't know what overall point I am trying to make, because
there are so many aspects that only the article(s), books, documentaries,
etc I have taken in can give any good evidence for claims about what is true
/ false ,good / bad, important/unimportant...

Everything is some of both, so .. HOW MUCH is it each (and each degree of
each) and in what ways (important vs. unimportant).
The only way to verify that is to prove how much it is what you don't think
it is, Add the two and you have a good guess.
The problem is ,,,that has to be done for every aspect. First, which aspects
really are important?
That helps to narrow it down, but in our eagerness to see what's important
we may forget to check against what we think isn't important to verify.
We may even find something we put on the unimportant side needs to be put
more on the important side & vice-versa.
We may overlook an important aspect and in its place maybe we boost a couple
of others.

We all do all this continually and automatically and some people are sloppy,
lazy and careless in judgments.
We may be right, but how often just by chance - going along with someone
else's ideas ..
Well, if so many agree why go to the trouble of trying to figure things out
for ourselves?
Other people, and lots of them, are doing it for us, and they are right most
of the time ..
.... or at least humankind is still here and we are doing better, overall,
right? Mai bpen rai ...
That was me ...

I guess the point is not usually to be able to pronounce a final
[true/false, good / bad, important /unimportant ] overall ratio.
Problems and solutions are multi-faceted dynamic and interactive.
The important things is to understand the thing - if you focus on
pronouncing a overall ratio the mind begins to close.
That happens a lot in debates / arguments and I have never been good at
arguing - I just don't like it.
It usually means both are being hardheaded in some ways, whatever the ratio.
I saw it enough as a child - not fighting, but arguing - point for point,
and my family doesn't cheat much in that, but as 5th of six kids it was
often over my head or beyond my control - mai bpen rai
that was me ...

We think it is a waste of time to show in what ways our opinion is weak and
demand the other do the same, but what we think is a detriment to winning /
proving the important points may not be as wrong or bad or unimportant as we
think. Don't assume the other will judge what seems like a weakness in your
argument.
He will make it more important than it is , more false, more bad.
Show them you know the good/ important/true aspects of their argument and
HOW MUCH and in WHAT WAYS so they can't make it more than it is, too
Saying all this you might think I would never voice an opinion - I would
never let myself think I was right about anything ...
.... for a long time I didn't see much point in giving my opinion - I judged
them about half-wrong just like everyone else's..
but that was just frustration , laziness and childish pouting.
I did know it all - life sucks. I had my own ratio in my head and didn't
get into "how much and in what ways".
your mind is closed
That .
It is itself and its opposite ( it's "anti-" ) . It is a matter of how much,
and in what ways it is both that let us understand what it is.

I don't think I have ever gotten someone to tell me a weak or bad thing
about their side of an argument or a good or strong point on the other
side.
They may concede points here and there and give tons of proof in support -
it's all good debate ...
....but so often I sit and read both sides but they get nowhere in convincing
the other.
I am drawn in by two people hammering it out because I think they will
expose all the bad, unimportant, and false and come to some conclusions for
me.
Usually there is no response when the issue is brought up by an outsider.
Often it is me, playing the devil's advocate against whoever's opinion or
idea is more like mine ...
I wondered why I choose that approach ... it is sort of a twisted Socratic
questioning type thing -
I thought it was Plato , but I think it was Socrates doing it with
geometry - asking what is not there to find what is?
Or maybe it was to show how you can make something simple into something
incomprehensible if you look at it enough ways?
I forget which - maybe that is my problem ;)

I think my parents had a huge impact on me when it comes to what is true,
good, and important.
I rebelled, of course, but they loved me and MADE me believe what they said
was true, good and important.
How did they MAKE me believe it?
They explained why and tried to reason with me. (brainwashing, but mostly
good)
Good/bad, true/false, important/unimportant == How much / in what ways -
Yes, if your parents can reason with you they have you just where they want
you ...
There were six of us kids and I guess my parents wanted something reliable
to control us.
Hmm they teach you first to reason and then they know what type of reasoning
works best on you..
very ruthless, but good intentions. Ruthlessly good intentions .. good and
bad in everything.

Well, there was a lot of debating with 6 kids and I learned to ignore most
of it -
I learned I could trust the outcome because I had responsible and fair
parents with good judgment and the.
Other people judging for me and doing a good job of it ...
For me it is particularly frustrating to see people argue and watch it
degenerate in name-calling and insults.
In my family an insult would never win. We tried to cheat and sometimes did
, but we would tend to debate the semantics of the argument more (was it
REALLY cheating ..."that doesn't matter" ,"Yes it does, because you said
such-and-such..")
We would usually submit to the truth (best we could know it)
Well, I thought most people we like us - reasonable and reasoning.
When I browse the newsgroups it seems I was wrong, but there are enough
hard-core nayme-changing spamtrolls to give that impression.
Man I hope I never hear someone at a party say, "Yeah I was a troll in SCT
back in 2004.."
I don't wanna go to jail ..

mmm White Russian- it's only 10 proof `O>-o
-Phil C




.

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