Re: The signs are still there

Actually Nick I am only advocating tolerance - read my message carefully - I
am not saying anything derogatory about other religions. I just to point out
that the teaching of some faiths is not tolerant of other faiths and that
this has been historically problematic for their interactions with other
cultures.

I don't oppose the teaching or spreading of other religions in Thailand - I
have no problems with that - as long as they are cognisant of social and
cultural norms. I am all for free choice. I was trying to answer the
question that was posed about 'why' people choose to try to convert others
to their religion. I have many thai friends - some of whom are Christian -
most are buddhist. The buddhists will invite me to a temple - in order for
me to gain merit - the Christians will invite me to a church - in order to
help me to be 'saved'. Both have the same underlying notion - care about my
destiny - but the Christian friends have a mission - the buddhists don't.

Doug


"Nick" <nicknomail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns97C78F6491C49nickaz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"gordon" <gordononline@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:446c0e73$0$3250$afc38c87@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Hey Sandy

Unfortunately this is one of the main teachings of Christianity -
something like - go forth and make disciples of all men - and that can
mean knocking on doors or putting up signs. It is also one of the
main failings of Christianity - the lack of true acceptance of other
faiths. While many Christians talk about tolerance - deep in their
faith most 'know' that all followers of all other faiths are destined
to 'hell' and this is the same teaching as I have found in Islam.
This is pure essentialism. "If you are not like us - then you are no
one".

I wrote my honours thesis about 19th Century Thailand and a large part
was on the impact of western influence in Bangkok during the 1820 to
1890's period. Funny thing, one of the main missionaries during that
time - Dr Rev Dan Beach Bradley was severely into bible bashing people
- he would sometimes make people pray with him before providing
medicines and medical treatments. He even tried this with one of the
great Kings of Siam!! Strange how after about 20 years of this
behavior - his church still only had about 20 members when he died!

However, one of the great teachings of Buddhism is of true tolerance.
Not just at face value - but in real depth - to the extent that other
people are welcome in temples regardless of their beliefs or any
chance of 'evangelism' or conversion to Buddhism. However after
saying that, one of the main topics I found discussed between new
friends and myself on my recent trip was - when I got married, did I
try to convert my wife to another religion. The implicit nature of
this question was that it would be in someway bad if she left her
Buddhist heritage. Little did they know (or maybe they did know) that
over the last 16 years she had been subtly converting me to her
religion - but not through lectures and earbashing - but through her
example of kindness, jai-yen, and tolerance of others. I still have
some problems with some Buddhist teachings - but on balance I would
regard myself as a transient type of buddhist - like to live the life,
happy to do the rituals - but not 100% convinced (due to early
childhood Christian indoctrination!).

Maybe the reason why Nick's Jun wouldn't take part in the pulling down
of signs is that she is absolutely tolerant - I know my wife wouldn't
take part in pulling down signs - she may chuckle at them, or even
feel sorry for the hard work of those that are so misguided, but she
would not generally even make a comment, although she would most
likely notice them.

If the signs had derogatory comments about another faith then the
police would take action against those who put them up or arrange for
them to be removed.

I hope that I haven't misrepresented other faiths - and this is only
my understanding in general terms.

Can only feel sorry for people who are so deeply into essentialism.

So you feel sorry for Sandy, Nick C, yourself .... too?
I mean if you oppose the teaching or spreading of other religions in a
country like Thailand that has a prevalent culture that's based on a
"religion" (Buddhism) aren't you in a sense advocating essentialisme
than?
Essentialisme: "A theory advocating the teaching, on traditional lines
and to everyone, of certain ideas and methods supposed to be essential to
the prevalent culture"
Nick C. says "I was very upset. They're not just playing on
people's fears ("Jesus is coming! Will you be ready?"), but trying to
change the culture of Thailand."
As for proselytizing it's not only Christians that are active, but IMHO
based on what i have been reading so far on this subject, there are
probably much bigger numbers of Christian missionaries active than
Buddhists missionaries.
"Citizens proselytize freely. Monks working as Buddhist missionaries
(Dhammaduta) have been active since the end of World War II, particularly
in border areas among the country's tribal populations. As of May 2005,
there were approximately 3,230 Dhammaduta working in the country. In
addition, during the period covered by this report, the Government
sponsored the international travel of another 1,038 Buddhist monks sent
by their temples to disseminate religious information to 25 countries.
Muslim organizations reported having small numbers of citizens working as
missionaries in the country and abroad. Christian organizations reported
much larger numbers of missionaries, both foreign and Thai, operating in
the country."
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51531.htm


Doug


"Sandy Cruden" <sandycruden@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1147919516.091772.69570@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Nick and Gavin that's my opinion as well. You don't see "The Buddha
is your only way to salvation" signs stuck up in trees around Oz or
IIRC The UK! What makes these people think they have the right to
force their religious beliefs on other people.

Sandy
Huay Khwaang




Nick


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