Re: I am Absolutely Stunned and Physically ill After reading this.

"Noi" <tawee3@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1125448498.278870.52200@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|
|
| <snip>
|
| The "ultimate duty of the parents" to protect their children would be
| for
| > the father to take care of the child and perform his equal share of
| > responsability.
| > The "ultimate duty of the parents" to protect their children would be
for
| > the pimp who was taking money from her all the time she was working as a
| > bargirl in Pattaya, to give a little bit of money in return.
| >
| > I guess that the child was not born out of an "immaculate" wonder?
| > Where was the father who was happy enough with that woman to make a
child
| > and then to run away?
| >
|
| *****No pimp (exempt the woman pimping her own daughter).
|
| Here's a rought translation of the article:
|
| Police and child protection agency of Cholbury Province searched the
| house of Mrs. Dang (fictitious name) and found an 8 years old girl
| alone in the middle of the night. The 8 years old girl looks weak and
| depressed. The authority sent the 8 years old girl to Banglamoong
| hospital. The doctor found that the little girl was so severely
| infected with STD. The little girl told the authority that she was
| forced by her mother to sleep with foreigners living at the condominium
| near by. She told the authority of the severed paint she had to
| endured, and she cried every time. Later, the police found and
| arrested Mrs. Dang. Mrs. Dang told the police that she used be a
| bargirl and her husband passed away. She is working as an assistant
| cook at the restaurant in south Pattaya. Because of her poor health and
| desperate for money, she took her daughter to Mr. John Samous (spell),
| a 56 years old Frenchman who resides at the Jomtain condominium. She
| told the authority that she would drink beer while waiting for her
| daughter. She received 1000 to 2000 baht each time from Mr. John. She
| has been doing this for well over a year.
| In addition, another 12 years old girl was also forced by her aunt (28
| years old woman) to have sex with Mr. John, and each time the 28 years
| old woman received 800 baht. She was arrested also.
|
| At any rate, Liam made excellent points in his post.
|
| Regards,
|
| Noi

Dear Noi,

In the article, as published by Thaivisa.com, nothing was said about the
father nor about the fact that the girl was HIV positive also (what makes no
substancial difference to me).

Anyhow, if the father passed away, there would still be the family who could
take care of the girl and/or help the mother financialy.

I remember a story published in SCT about a former bargirl who worked many
years and gave everything she earned to help her parents and the other
family members, but when she was tested HIV positive, nobody of her family
was willing to take care of her.

You asked me what the ultimate duty of the parents is, and I gave you some
answers.
In addition, if one or both of the parents cannot fulfill his duty for
whatever reason, there is still the family to take care (like I have done
with my daughter).

And what about the other girl in the article who was sold by her aunt for
800 baht?
Did her father or her parents died also?

Nothing of this changes my view on this matter.

Pointing with a finger to the (sick) mother is not the right thing to do
IMHO.
There are many others, ranging from her family to the Government who has
failed to do their job to protect the wellbeing of the child(s) and who had
a far more important note on this.

Remember, he who is without fault, cast the first stone.

Regards,

Carlos

| Carlos wrote:
| > "Noi" <tawee3@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
| > news:1125365887.439982.273990@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > |
| > | Carlos wrote:
| > | > "Noi" <tawee3@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
| > | > news:1125274269.971641.15910@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > |
| > | > | Carlos wrote:
| > | > | > "Noi" <tawee3@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:1125112764.538321.4180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Carlos wrote:
| > | > | > | > "Noi" <tawee3@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
| > | > | > | > news:1125019802.294047.61560@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > <snipped>
| >
| > | > Khun Noi,
| > | >
| > | > I guess that we will never come to an agreement on this question,
and to
| > be
| > | > fair, we are humans with each their own opinion and able to discuss
this
| > | > delicate matter without throwing *** to eachother (opposite to some
| > other
| > | > posters in this forum). So I accept yuor point of view, but that
doesn't
| > | > necessarly meant that I agree with your opinion on this matter.
| > | > When I say that "poverty is an excuse" in relation to this
discussion, I
| > | > mean that things would have been completely different if that woman
had
| > | > access to a basic treatment of her HIV illness without paying the
| > exurberant
| > | > prices for the HIV medicine (and many others like her as mentioned
in
| > the
| > | > previous post).
| > | > Why not allow this woman to have access to the 30-baht scheme for
the
| > HIV
| > | > medicine to ease the pain?
| > | > Why not allow any Thai citizen to have access to the 30-baht scheme
in
| > | > Thailand when their health is letting them down?
| > | >
| > | > Thailand benefits every year billions of baht from the tourist
industry.
| > | > Why not use a tiny part of these benefits for a basic healthcare?
| > | >
| > | > I need to go every month to the hospital to do several checkup's and
the
| > to
| > | > get the medication according to the results.
| > | > And every month I donate the hospital 1,000 baht, without asking the
| > sexual
| > | > services of a child for my donation.
| > | > Only, because I know and have seen that they can help many other
| > patients
| > | > who are less financial independant as I.
| > | >
| > | > I dont believe in the Christian teachings when they say to take your
| > | > suffering with pride, because there is a God who loves you and who
will
| > take
| > | > care of you after this life.
| > | >
| > | > I neither believe in the Buddhist teachings that her suffering is
due to
| > her
| > | > greed or her past, and she has to take the suffering with pride as
she
| > will
| > | > return in an other life as "whatever".
| > | >
| > | > This woman lives now, with her pain due to the HIV and her worries
about
| > | > what will become of her child as her life span is very reduced, and
she
| > | > needs help now without pointing at her with a finger and give her
the
| > morals
| > | > of what is good and wrong. When a country who had benefits of you
during
| > | > many years but the same country cannot offer you basic health care
when
| > you
| > | > are severely ill, there is something wrong.
| > |
| > | Khun Carlos:
| > |
| > | I don't know much about the healthcare system in Thailand, however,
| > | from what I understand my aunt has access to the 30 baht health care
| > | deal. Why the woman in this article is not taking advantage of this
| > | deal? Wouldn't it be better for her to asks for help from a charity
| > | organization or even any Christian Church than to forced her child to
| > | prostitute for her?
| >
| > Khun Noi, with al due respect, but here you show clearly that you didn't
| > read the whole article before formulating your response.
| >
| > The woman was working in a restaurant, and therefore she had an income
which
| > denied her the 30-baht scheme.
| > Altough, her income was not enough to pay all the bills for her and her
| > daughter, and on top of that the very expensive HIV medication.
| > She was maybe too proud to beg for charity or even any Christian Church
| > (they would be problably the first ones to rape her daughter), and
choosed
| > to work to provide food and shelter for her and her daughter in her
| > condtition.
| > Such a woman should IMHO get more respect than others who instead of
working
| > to provide their own living, choose to work as a street girl on Beach
Road
| > and have access to the 30 baht scheme.
| >
| > | Please think carefully: when does one person needs permit her to
| > | inflict the inhumane treatment to others, least of all her very own
| > | child? Isn't the ultimate duty of the parents is to protect their
| > | child from harm? This article demonstrated that the person who is
| > | supposed to protect this child was the very person that deliberately
| > | forced the child into harms way!
| >
| > First of all, she was living alone with her daughter.
| >
| > The "ultimate duty of the parents" to protect their children would be
for
| > the father to take care of the child and perform his equal share of
| > responsability.
| > The "ultimate duty of the parents" to protect their children would be
for
| > the pimp who was taking money from her all the time she was working as a
| > bargirl in Pattaya, to give a little bit of money in return.
| >
| > I guess that the child was not born out of an "immaculate" wonder?
| > Where was the father who was happy enough with that woman to make a
child
| > and then to run away?
| >
| > That's the "ultimate duty of the parents" to protect their children, in
good
| > and in bad times.
| >
| > Answerring your question, there would be several possibilities to answer
| > your queation adequatly.
| >
| > 1. The Christian way:
| > The Bible reports of many cases where own children has been offered
to
| > God.
| > Putting them to the inhumane treatment of killing them and put them
on
| > the fire wood.
| > Is this not "inhuman"?
| >
| > The Bible reports that "you can do with your slaves and the children
| > from your slaves as you please".
| > Many Bible figurants sold the children of their slaves to be slaves
for
| > others.
| > Is this not "inhuman"?
| >
| > 2. The way of many so called "macho's".
| > Get yourself a (young) beautiful girl (a bargirl), take benefit of
her
| > as a pimp collecting her money or as a "lover" who takes pride of
walking
| > with a girl who could be his own daughter in the streets, and make her a
| > child (or more).
| > And when this girl meets someone with AIDS and get herself infected,
| > leave the girl AND the child with their misery.
| > In my country, the father of the child would have 2 options: take
care
| > himself of the child and help to pay for her medication, or have your
income
| > reduced to a minimum by a court and give the money to take care of her
AND
| > her child.
| >
| > 3. The way it really was happening.
| > The woman was suffering from AIDS, left alone with her child and the
| > huge bills.
| > She choossed to continue to work in a restaurant, and pay the
school,
| > housing, food and many more, all by herself (which gives her a lot of
| > respect from me).
| > Then she meet a seedy Frenchman (like Mort, whose only knowledge of
| > Thailand is Pattaya and the bars) and he offers her 800 baht ( a lot of
| > money for her, peanuts for him) if he can (ab)use an 8 year old girl
(which
| > gives him no respect from me).
| > Like most of the SE Asians, this child has been lectured that she
should
| > take care of her mother, and she agrees.
| > Nobody forced her to go with that seedy Frenchman like Mort.
| > It was her own choice in order to help her mother.
| >
| > If there was proper healthcare available for those who need it the
most,
| > this thing would never happened.
| > But it is like in most countries the world over.
| > Those who need it the most, are kept out of it.
| >
| > Khun Noi, many stories like this can be read in books or can be watched
| > today.
| >
| > When God created his "paradise", he was happy with his creation and took
a
| > day rest.
| > But a snake choossed to intervene, and he presented Eve an apple.
| > The rest of the story may be well known to anyone.
| > Endpoint of this story is that God punished Adam and Eve to be exiled
from
| > paradise and wander forever in this world with all the inherit
| > inconveniences and God punished the snake to burn forever in hell.
| > But the one who suffered the most of all was God himself when he found
out
| > on the 8th day that his whole paradise was big failure and even after
| > several times killing all humans by all kind of disasters and even offer
his
| > own son to be our saviour, he failed miserably.
| > Lesson:
| > If the mighty God himself is not able to help us from his own creation
| > (failure), who are we to throw a stone to this poor woman?
| >
| > | Shouldn't the duty of the parents be a universal rule? That at the
| > | very minimum that the child should feel safe when she is in her home
| > | and with her parents?
| >
| > Shouldn't it be an universal rule to define first what is "parents"?
| > If the father of the child runs away and leave the poor woman with the
child
| > care and the huge bills, shouldn't the father be braught to justice and
| > forced to take care of his family like in my country?
| >
| > BTW, you forget the most important in all this.
| > The original story and what really happened!!!!
| >
| > | Here's a hypothetical question for you; as a person with health
| > | problem as you are, would you even conceive of doing this? I think
not!
| >
| > It is maybe not a hypothetical question.
| >
| > I have some health deficiencies, but it is not a problem to me for the
| > moment.
| > I know a lot of people of my age who are in a far worse condition as I
am.
| > Thus, I'm happy to live in this condition and not to have a "problem".
| >
| > You see, there are 2 ways to see everything: "the half full glass and
the
| > half empty glass".
| >
| > Responding your question, I try not to repeat the failures of God, and
I'm
| > not a "macho" guy.
| >
| > If my wife would turn sick and need medical treatment, no matter how
| > expensive it would be, I would take care of her and my daughter.
| > And in the event that we both would die, measures has been taken to have
my
| > family in Belgium to take care of her.
| >
| > I took care of my 2 daughters in Belgium untill they ware grown up,
| > financialy and otherwise.
| > And I still take care of them when they need something.
| >
| > Regards,
| >
| > Carlos
| >
| >
| >
| > |
| > | Regards,
| > |
| > | Noi
| > |
| > | >
| > | > Regards,
| > | >
| > | > Carlos
| > | >
| > | > | Regards,
| > | > |
| > | > | Noi
| > | > |
| > | > | > The only one to blame is the country itself who cannot offer
basic
| > | > health
| > | > | > care in this case.
| > | > | > I have seen many girls who had to go work in a bar to pay the
bills
| > | > after
| > | > | > one of her relatives got hospitalized.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Even recently, I have meet a young woman who has stopped with
her
| > | > University
| > | > | > studies and went to work in a bar after her brother got
hospitalized
| > to
| > | > | > Bangkok with a heart failure. In Khorat, he would have been dead
| > | > already.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Khun Noi, you are living in the luxury of the USA, and have no
| > binding
| > | > with
| > | > | > the daily life of the Thais anymore IMHO.
| > | > | > Don't take this as an offense, but I only want to point out to
you
| > what
| > | > the
| > | > | > real daily life is of many people in Thailand.
| > | > | > And you seem to be aware of that according to your further
reply.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | In addition, this is not something that I remembered existed
in my
| > | > | > | beloved homeland that I left 30 years ago. The Thailand that I
| > | > | > | remembered was simple, kind, and gentle. I remembered when my
| > family
| > | > | > | cooked something special we brought that special food to our
| > neighbors
| > | > | > | and our neighbors returned the dishes to us with something
special
| > | > from
| > | > | > | their home. I remembered the elders of our village gathered at
the
| > | > bond
| > | > | > | fire in the evening, singing (pleang choy), an old Thai folk
art.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > In the town where I live in Khorat, neighbors use to gather
together
| > a
| > | > few
| > | > | > times a day for a meal.
| > | > | > Everyone brings some food and drink with them.
| > | > | > And at the evening, the youngsters gather together with us and
sing
| > all
| > | > kind
| > | > | > of songs accompagnied with their guitar.
| > | > | > "Hotel California" is not what I would call "old Thai folk art",
but
| > it
| > | > is
| > | > | > nice to hear them doing an effort to sing an American song. -);
| > | > | > The "good old Thailand" as you know it is not realy gone.
| > | > | > But you dont find it in Pattaya where our "real life in L.O.S."
| > | > connoisseur
| > | > | > Deckard resides a few times a year.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | Each time I visited Thailand I shed tears for things that I
| > | > encountered
| > | > | > | that I never knew existed 30 years ago. For example, the first
| > time I
| > | > | > | went back to visit Thailand I wept at river's bank in my home
town
| > | > | > | because of the sparkle clear and clean river that I used to
swim
| > in
| > | > was
| > | > | > | nothing but a muddy greenish polluted river. My last visit to
| > Thailand
| > | > | > | I cried at the sight of an elderly gentleman searched for food
in
| > the
| > | > | > | garbage bin. It was contrary to the memory that I have of the
| > elders
| > | > in
| > | > | > | my village that I adored with utmost respect for them!
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Noi, when I think of 30 years back in Belgium or Spain, I can
| > remember
| > | > many
| > | > | > good things that were not existing at that time.
| > | > | > The movies of that time, brings back the good things I have seen
at
| > that
| > | > | > time.
| > | > | > Even, when I see some old Thai movies on the TV, I can imagine
how
| > they
| > | > were
| > | > | > living at that time.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > It is the same everywhere in the world.
| > | > | > The world is in a constant evolution and changing.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Alas, not always for the good.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | I must admit that I am and always have been living in a
sheltered
| > | > life.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Have a nice weekend,
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Carlos
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Regards,
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Noi
| > | > | > |
| > | > |
| > |
|


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