Re: The 'CRIME' of Ren Chi and Ming Yi

On Dec 6, 10:22 am, baldeagle <botakea...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Is Ren Ci guilty of infringement of ANY LAW..in lending out
the money from its huge reserve fund ?
Please don't dance around the issue.
The issue here ....is the loan activities illegal. If it is illegal,
please tell us the Law.

I notice that you have not told us the law that Ming Yi has
violated.
So I assumed that he has not broken any law. In fact, I was
waiting for CPIB to bring him to court and the judge to jail
him.
I must say...I am a little disappointed with CPIB and
the government...having stirred up so much public interests..
but failed to chop the head with the guillotine. It is not unlike
teenage sex.


The law that he might have broken is known as "Criminal breach
of trust". It is part and parcel of the society and company act -
depending on which RenCi was registered under. In either case criminal
breach of trust is criminal. It is NOT even CIVIL but CRIMINAL and
this is how serious this is.

The fiduciary duties of a CEO of a private, public or
charitable organisation are to serve the best interests of the
organisation and if it involves public money then the best interests
of the people it purport to serve. When those duties and the trusts
place on it are not met then there could be a breach of trust. Whether
it is criminal in nature depends on how that breach of trusts were
carried out. If for example if the loans were given to a company in
which Ming Yi himself has a share in or benefit from it then it is a
criminal breach of trust. If it is to friends and family then a case
could be made for a criminal breach of trust if it could be proven
that Ming Yi himself benefited from it in some indirect way. If it is
done just to help out a friend than it is a serious breach of trust
not amounting to a criminal breach.

If it was Durai ...and he lent money to a company owned by him..
to earn profits, then I agree that Durai is guilty of corruption.
Because he and his family get to enjoy the money so earned with
the loan.
However, Ming Yi is a Buddhist monk...a person who has given
up all worldly things, including family and wealth. ...to serve the
communities ...to make the lives of the poor a little less painful
and to make their suffering a little more bearable.
The money earned by the business started by him will go towards
such welfare work.....not towards installing gold taps, buying
first class travel and holiday overseas for a luxurious life.

It does not matter if you are a durai or a ming yi and it matters
not whatever motive he gave or you gave to what he did. If he or his
family members or his friends had benefitted from the breach of trust
then it is criminal in nature. You can say that his benefit is to get
the money and benefit the poor but every criminal could also make the
same claim. Motives can be used to mitigate the sentence but not used
to absolve one of a crime.

It does not matter also if he's a monk, a saint, a god, a sufi
master. Monks , saint, god, sufi master etc. are all still human with
human weaknesses and folly.

Having said all these I have to admit I really do not know the
details and what little I gather from the internet here it is quite
obvious that there is CBT but whether that was done out of ignorance
or folly I do not know. How accurate these information are I also do
not know. I was merely replying to your question if there is wrong
doing and I painted the various scenarios in which such wrong doing
could have happened.

I am not sure if Ming Yi guilty of corruption...in using the reserve
to start business which will increase the money available for
welfare work.
Will CPIB take him to court for doing so...so far NO.

Well "not sure" is a good start. Sometimes we are so caught up
with our own hopes and wishes and delusions we could not distinguish
between "see-fei" and "see-sat" (cantonese for rumour and fact).

If business were started to increase the coffer of RenCi why
not start it using RenCi's organisation ? If it is not in their
charter then convene a EGM to get it passed.

The fact that CPIB has not done so is no indication of
innocence. Likewise even if CPIB take him to court it is also no
indication of his guilt. As I had said it could be due to ignorance or
foolhardiness. Only Ming Yi himself knows the truth but the operation
of the law has to run its course.

In fact, the government is now setting up a high powered panel
to looking into ways to help social entrerprises succeed..
called "Business with a heart". The business started by
Ming Yi is one such "bussines with a heart".

Such posturing after the horse had galloped just doesn't
wash. If there's a need to do business to generate income to finance
the operation of such charitable organisation there is actually a
mechanism for it to happen. But the question is whether such a move is
wise or even prudent ? Where's the separation of power and interests
be drawn ? I could foresee that it will make great business sense to
set up NON-PROFIT charitable organisation enjoying all the tax breaks
with a business arm. Profit from the business arm is then channelled
to the NON-PROFIT arm and the directors enjoyed special benefits from
the NON-PROFIT arm. Donations from public are then channelled to the
business arm to finance its operations. Great way to fool the public
and at the same time raise business funds. Everytime the business arm
needed a fresh injection of funds all it needed to do is asked the NON-
PROFIT arm to stretch out its arm to the public.

A more important question that charitable organisations
must ask themselves is what are their primary objectives. And if their
strengths and capabilities are in the deliverance of social services
why put their fingers into businesses which require a whole set of
different skills and mind-set ?


Ming Yi could have lend the money to the bank as a term
deposit and the interests earned will benefit the organisation and the
people that he was supposed to serve.

Yes. Ming Yi action is just like putting the money in fixed deposit..
earning more money for the charity with the reserve.

It is NOT. A term deposit has to have RenCi's name and
company seal. If it is not then there's again a criminal breach of
trust. In the case in question and if the details are accurate the
loan given to the businesses were interest-free. How long the loan
will be given is also not specified. What were the repayment terms
were again not specified. In such a case the businesses were actually
given a cash hand-out. Were contracts actually signed ?


.................In this case there's no breach
of trust for what was done was to serve the mandate given to him.
In both cases a loan was made but the resulting benefit
distinguishes it from a breach of trust or serving that trust.
It is well known in zen that 4 people bowing to Buddha may
all be performing the same gestures but what purifies the mind or
pollute it further or giving vent to the delusions of the mind depends
on what goes on within our hearts and mind.

True..... One who bow because he accept Buddha as a respected
teacher..will follow Buddha's teaching and become a wise man.

Another who bow because he wanted favour from Buddha..to satisfy
his greed for wealth ...or asking Buddha for eternal life...will not
become wiser...He is ignorant of Buddha teaching ...He is not
a real Buddhist.

Following Buddha's teaching won't make one a wise man.
Purifying one's mind will. Chop wood , carry water and drop ashes on
Buddha will make you wise.

I think the following conversation between Bodhidharma and
Emperor Wu is worth repeating. Particularly about all the wonderful
works done by the emperor. The Mahayanist, particularly the chinese
Mahayanist should take heed of this. The 6 paramita practice is not a
SUBSTITUTE for purifying one's mind. It is only a tool. Not seeing
this many had thought all their charitable works will make an iota of
difference in purifying their mind.


This is a recording of a conversation between Bodhidharma and
Emperor Wu. And Bodhidharma's conduct set as a good standard of
conduct for a monk. After this encounter Emperor Wu had nothing to do
with Bodhidharma, shunned him and refused to acknowledge him as a
great spiritual master.

----------------------------
The emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma, "What is the highest
meaning
of noble truth?" Bodhidharma answered, "There is no noble truth." The
emperor then asked Bodhidharma, "Who is standing before me?"
Bodhidharma answered, "I don't know." The emperor then asked
Bodhidharma, "How much karmic merit have I earned by ordaining
Buddhist monks, building monasteries, having sutras copied, and
commissioning Buddha images?"

NONE !



--------
http://djhampa.spaces.live.com
.

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