Re: Kwestions


"The Phantom Piper" <ThePhantomPiper@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:74a31ddd-435f-4c3d-905f-cfd978114638@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 22, 10:55 pm, "Allan" <al...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It doesn't reflect reality on the ground.

Let me try One More Time:

"Reality On The Ground" is _what people make of it_.

Example: 'Britain' (and we are not talking about
either Land Masses or Ancient Nomenclature here)
is what the English made of England, Scotland,
and Northern Ireland after they had added the latter
two - via a combination of bribes, conquest, and the
threat of conquest - to the former one.

*************************

Your whole premis is both wrong and slightly irrelevant. First of all yes I was talking about geographic and social issues. You may not be but I was. Britain is more than just a political construct that was my whole point. I'd prefer to see an independent Scotland but what I was saying was that wouldn't stop us being British as it means much more than the political construct. There is a shared common Britishness in social and cultural terms which you may not like but it is there all the same. Secondly the idea that Britain was created by only the English who wanted it is again just not true. The vast majority of English and Scots AFAIK didn't want it at the time and it ended up being created by a tiny group of the ruling classes pushed for by the Stuart regime which was the monarchy of both countries. Yes there was especially economic pressure from the English rulers for union at the time in question, but there had been various pushes for union at various stages from various factions in the 17thC from within Scotland as well as within England. Even the anti-union stance of Fletcher of Saltoun was a complete reversal of what he himself had been in favour of little more than a decade before. He was a hard line Whig who had advocated union but wanted to see the monarchy curbed 1640s Covenanting style. He believed that union could secure this. When it became apparant that it would not be the type of union he wanted he changed tack. As for Ireland it was originally invaded by Norman overlords.........the same group of people who had made the conquest of England itself. Even in later stages like the 18thC etc you could hardly blame the English people. European ruling classes played their political games all over the world causing havoc and suffering wherever. There was no democracy and ordinary John Bull in his field or factory was no more to blame for Ireland's political position than you or I are.

Likewise nowadays no-one in any country is responsible for what did or didn't hapopen 800 or 400 or 300 years ago. It is pretty irrelevant. The discussion about whether Scotland should be part of the union or not is a modern debate about the future of Scotland. Many people prefer independence, many people prefer the status quo, in truth probably a substantial group don't much care one way or the other or aren't sure. Whatever their persuasion though Scottishness is not the property of only one of the groups. You may not want Britain to be a reality but like it or not it exists in various forms and until or unless the Scottish people decide in enough numbers that they do want to leave the union then the chances are that they will remain in the union - unless England decides to opt out itself which though more plausable than it may once have been is still pretty unlikely.

Allan


Allan

.

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