Re: Line up for your bail-out dollars

On Dec 31, 5:22 pm, soupdragon <m...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"deemsb...@xxxxxxx" <deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote innews:2aa28596-cd10-42ac-bb81-f30a39423e4a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:





On Dec 29, 4:26 pm, soupdragon <m...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"deemsb...@xxxxxxx" <deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote
innews:684a88c3-f48e-4c10-a
8a5-dbcde369e...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Dec 29, 1:56 pm, soupdragon <m...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"deemsb...@xxxxxxx" <deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote
innews:62a1d04d-d285-4b71-a
f8a-40c0492a9...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Dec 29, 10:28 am, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
<deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:efbe7bd1-cb81-4793-9469-4b250b40b8f6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
.co m.
.. On Dec 28, 7:45 am, soupdragon <m...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"deemsb...@xxxxxxx" <deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote
innews:c7ef21f1-81d6-4ea8-a2a6-d5fd44e14f07@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
rou ps. com
:

On Dec 27, 11:21 pm, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <ador@ble> wrote:
<deemsb...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

Oh sure. A free-for-all shoot out with *everyone* at the
party getting in
to
the spirit of the thing is a GREAT idea Doomsville.
It's on a par with the 'logic' of arming schoolkids in
time for the next wave of classroom massacres.
Have you been allowed home from the asylum for Christmas
or what?

I'd bet if a couple of people at that party were armed,
there would've been less carnage.

And I'd bet that if the guy at the door wasn't armed then there
would hav
e
been less carnage.
See the difference in the logic we apply in the UK?

     But he had a gun.

And up to the point he started shooting, he was just another law
abiding citizen of the sort you are happy to trust with a gun.

Gee, you're not very good at this reality thing
are you?

Reality was a law abiding citizen lost the plot and 8 people are
dead, largely because of the ease with which he armed himself. But
then, collateral damage like this is acceptable to you as long as
the myth that guns in the hands of the citizens is a crime
deterrent continues to be perpetuated.

     10 are dead.

Ok. 10 are dead - point is still made.

You seem to be stretching my point. I'd love it if
all guns...well, handguns were gone tomorrow. It's not going to
happen, therefore I like the fact that I have the option of arming
myself.

Which, of course, is as I said. You're a slave to the myth.

    What myth? That being armed is better than being unarmed? That's
not a myth.

You're right, that's not a myth - it's a strawman. Here's what I
actually said, rather than what you wished I had said :-

"..the myth that guns in the hands of the citizens is a crime
deterrent continues to be perpetuated."

Maybe you should look it up.

Been there, done that. Maybe you should take your own advice.

You might start with - since you appear to be one who likes
citations:-

1998 Dan Black and Daniel Nagin, “Do Right-to-Carry Laws Deter Violent
Crime?” Journal of Legal Studies.

2003 Ian Ayres and John Donohue, “Shooting Down the ‘More Guns, Less
Crime’ Hypothesis, Stanford Law Review.

2006 JOHN J. DONOHUE THE FINAL BULLET IN THE BODY OF THE MORE GUNS, LESS
CRIME HYPOTHESIS

There's loads more including a peer reviewed statistical review of all
the surveys carried out that concluded there wasn't a shred of evidence
to support the hypothesis.

In the other corner, You have Prof Gary Kleck - author of Point Blank and
offers a well argued position on the subject.

Clayton Cramer is also a creditable performer for the pro-gun side.

John Lott, the one time darling of the pro-gun lobby, has rather
seriously blotted his copybook after it was found he'd been massaging
his numbers, invented bogus surveys, engaged in sock-puppetry to place
fake glowing reviews of his books in Amazon and similarly engaged in
edit wars in Wiki using multiple accounts. He has also been accused
of misrepresenting Kleck's work and Kleck himself has distanced himself
from Lott as a result.

Then we have the gun looneys.. lots of them and best avoided.







Given that they are American, a more likely outcome would be
that they would have missed their intended target and,
instead, killed another 50 at a wedding party across the
street.

      Yawn.

It's happened before.

    Cite?

Every time an innocent bystander is killed when some nut with a
chip on his/her shoulders goes out for revenge.

     That's quite a bit different than the first statement. Try a
gain.

I don't have to 'try again', you know perfectly well what the point I
was making with first statement, albeit in a more light hearted way
than the second and more pointed version. Americans can't be trusted
with guns. Frequently these nutters are 'law abiding citizens' who've
lost there job, set out to take out out on their boss and end up
killing a whole bunch of innocents. School shootings are now common
place as kids take their parents guns into schools to settle scores.

     "Common"? No, that's why they're news.

Would you like to see a list? It doesn't make pretty reading. It averages
one every 2 months and that's just the fatal shootings. Feb this year
was rather busy with 4 in the space of a week with a total of 10 dead
in 4 different schools around the country. Then there's workplace
shootings - now so common it barely makes more than the local news.



But hey! Perish the thought that these parents should be denied the
right to have these guns lying around the house. There might be
a burglar around! "From my cold dead hand" and all that NRA tosh.

    Well, please stay away. We wouldn't want you to have your delicate
sensibilities hurt.

It's the hurting of innocents that concerns me. Clearly you believe that
such casualties are an acceptable price, as long as you can play with your
toys.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

What part of "I don't own any guns" do you not understand?

What part of "If all of our handguns disappeared tomorrow we'd be
better off" don't you understand?

Since that's not going to happen, I still want the right to
legally own a gun if I so choose. I disagreed 30 years ago, but there
has been a fundamental shift in our thugs' mentality. They used to
just steal what they wanted. Now, they kill you after they take what
they want. A couple friends of mine worked as prison guards. Do you
know what the #1 reason convicts believed they were in jail for? Hint:
it wasn't because they'd comitted a crime...it was because they had
left witnesses.
.

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