Re: Ireland Acts And Yurp Twitters.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:36:32 -0700, Fred J. McCall
<fjmccall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

James Hogg <Jas.HoggOUT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

:On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:21:07 -0700, Fred J. McCall
:<fjmccall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:
:>James Hogg <Jas.HoggOUT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:>
:>:On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:18:52 -0700, Fred J. McCall
:>:<fjmccall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:>:
<old stuff snipped>
:>:>I wouldn't call 'future tense' a compound tense. It's the third
:>:>simple tense.
:>:
:>:You combine the verb "will" with the infinitive of the verb, e.g.
:>:"I will go". That makes it a compound tense, as opposed to the
:>:simple "I go" or "I went".
:>:
:>
:>Except that 'will' isn't classified as a verb in the dictionary. It
:>is a 'verb auxiliary. See definition 3.
:>
:>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/will
:
:"Will" is a verb. All auxiliary verbs are verbs.
:You really don't understand this, do you?
:

Better than you, from all indications.

Self-delusion on your part.

<old stuff snipped>

:>:>Please construct a sentence using 'fly' as a present tense verb.
:>:
:>:Every Tuesday I fly to Berlin.
:>:
:>:What tense can that be other than the present?
:>:
:>
:>But you are not currently in flight, so how can that be present tense?
:>It's referring to the past and/or the future; Tuesday.
:
:You failed to answer my question: What tense can that be other
:than the present?
:

Try reading the bit immediately after your question. That's called
'an answer'.

I thought that was the old McCallian sense of humour. I didn't
think your were serious in suggesting that the verb "fly" has a
combined past/future tense which happens to have exactly the same
form as the present.

Let's look again at the sentence "Every Tuesday I fly to Berlin."
You're reaction to that was: "But you are not currently in
flight, so how can that be present tense?"

You are confusing the present time (in the general,
non-linguistic sense) with the verb tense which linguists label
as the present. This doesn't just refer to what is currently
happening. It is also used for eternal or timeless truths:

The earth goes round the sun.
Water freezes at 32 degrees Fahrenheit (the statement remains
true even if you utter it during a heat wave).
The vulture eats carrion.

If you consult
:http://www.iei.uiuc.edu/structure/Structure1/tenses.html
you will see that this form of the verb "eats" is called "present
simple", not past/future or anything else.

:Look at the box labelled Simple Present and the example "He
:eats". Are you saying that this is wrongly labelled and should be
:something other than the present?
:

I note it's not 'fly'.

This is what I meant about the need for abstract thought. That
site uses the verb "eat" as an EXAMPLE. They chose that verb to
illustrate how all verbs work in English. That's a space-saving
way to avoid having to produce a different table for every single
verb in English. Intelligent people abstract from that table and
understand that it applies also to "fly" and "argue" and "grasp"
etc. You cannot surely mean that the verb "fly" differs from the
verb "eat" by not having a present simple tense, but instead a
past/future tense.

I also note that the cite disagrees with you
about how many verb tenses there are.

It disagrees partly with you too. You said that English has nine
tenses, that site says nine or twelve. It all depends how you
count. I have already told you that English has two simple tenses
and four compund tenses. Two plus four makes six. In each of
these six tenses (not just three of them) you can have simple or
progressive forms, which means that you can double the six to
twelve. Nine is a strange figure to choose because it implies
that there are only three progressive tenses. But whether the six
progressive forms constitute different tenses is merely a
question of definition.

:
:One context where you can use this form is "He eats pancakes
:every Tuesdays". That's present tense, even though it's Saturday
:today and he isn't currently eating pancakes (We have the
:progressive form for that, Fred). When he dies or gives up this
:habit you will be able to use the past tense and say "He ate
:pancakes every Tuesday", but if he still habitually does it, then
:we use the present.
:
:Did you really miss all this at school? I know it requires some
:capacity for abstract thought to understand and explain language,
:but it's not rocket science.
:

I'm a long way from school, but I remember more than two verb tenses
in both English and German. Did you really miss all that in school? I
know it requires some capacity for abstract thought to understand and
explain language, but it's not rocket science.

Since I do rocket science for a living, perhaps that explains why you
get wrapped around the axle over grammar arguments. Now spit out the
hook and run along like a good little boy.

Good job you're in rocket science and not working with
linguistics. The same applies, mutatis mutandis, to me of course.
I try not to make pronouncements about subjects of which I am
ignorant. I avoid much public embarrassment that way.

Oh, and there are still more than two verb tenses in English and
German...

If you count the compound ones, yes. I have't denied that. But
you defined "compound" as "simple" above, thus going against
accepted linguistic terminology. Since you have shown a
near-total inability and a total unwillingness to understand
linguistic terms, I see no point in providing any further
remedial education without receiving adequate remuneration.

James
.

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