Re: Deviance

R.Peffers. wrote:
"Val Adams" <va_adams@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:i0N0g.69456$Jd.10223@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[...]


Footprint bordering on absurd here, did some chopping, hope clean cuts.



I think I understand your point better, but dont think I am qualified to debate it. From my perspective it is an elitist kind of viewpoint from a part of society I am simply not familiar with, the 2 parent home.

Err! Would it make any difference if I explained that my father went off to war and my mother went to work in the war effort. She was there but not as the all day mother. My Grandparents did most of the parenting.
well I did wonder, I didnt think many in your country were untouched by the strains of that war; but when someone talks about working parent(s) being a 'problem', I get a little touchy..kind of a 'class' thing, I guess, have heard SO much crap about it being the root of all societal evil, and never did understand WTF planet these folks have been living on.. ;)

My grandfather died of pneumonia when my mom was 3, and gramma did not marry again for 12 long years. My dad never came back from WW2. My kids dad..the less said the better in a public forum, but he's dead now too in any case.

You think my Gran didn't work? We were farming stock we all bloody well worked from the moment we could carry something.
heh.relax, is/was same in tenements.. 6 yr olds can make tea...


The women in my family have always worked. Basically we had two choices, work or welfare; 3, if you count whoring, but as we none of us had the looks or temperament to make a success of that and all of us disliked the state prying in to our lives, we all chose work.


As did we. I never had a days unemployed in my life.


Likewise, we have always depended on extended family for child care; public care facilites were not even widely available until relatively late in our family development, and some of those that were came straight out of Dickens.


You de realise that the Grandparents now-a-days are too busy enjoying themselves to care for Grandchildren on a regular basis.
well..most of the ones I know are either still working themselves, or so disabled they must themselves be cared for. Is why GOOD child-care facilities are such a godsend.


Better by far a neurotic & overworked grandparent who CARES than a canting egoist with an authority complex and a state supplement.
That is not to say none of the kids had problems; of which you may correctly surmise alienation from society at large is a major one, but we have had our share of the lesser as well. Not much in to 'terrorizing the neighbors' but certainly drugs and alcohol have taken their toll.(shrug) what would you; there are runts in every litter; I think we have NOT had MORE than our share, and over time most of ours have straightened themselves out.


Rebellion is a normal part of growing up. The difference is that it is normally brought back under control with a little help from the familky before there is too much harm done. Trouble is there are too many where it is not even tackled now and the spiral just goes on to destruction.
Oh, yes, I understand the rebellion thing (how not, heh,heh,heh) I guess it is a kind of luck with us, the 'norm' in the extended family is the way it is, so even without 'talking to' it tends to herd the young cats back toward the fold. IME, when there IS talking to, sometimes the rebellious period lasts longet..but eventually I guess they all come up against 'do as I do, not as I say' :-P

There are some definite advantages to knowing yourself a member of a group where 'working' is a major standard of acceptable behavior.


Indeed there is and that is another great returner to the straight and narrow.

I have seen actual cases where parents have sued schools claiming that the schools were negligent. Where are these parents while their kids are out terrorising others in the streets? Where are they when their kids are buying, pushing or using drugs? Where are they when their kids are getting out of their minds on cheap booze? Where are the parents of the gangs fighting each other on the streets of our towns and cities? Well to be fair I do know where some of them are - out doing the same as their kids. [...]

Kids need to find out exactly where the limits of acceptable behaviour lie. They actually feel much more secure when they are given these limits.

chuckle; Think you are supporting my view more than yours here; grandparents ARE good sources of behavioral standards.


Only if they are on the straight and narrow themselves. So many now are not and I know families where the eldest are as bad as the youngest and they are all tearaways. There is all the difference in the World between a working parent who comes home after work and has time for the kids and quite another when they come home, dress for the evening and head for the pub or club.
[snip me]

My point is that some of the parents and grandparents are not at all interested in the welfare of the kids. Oh! Yes they will give them anything their hearts desire, anything that is except what they really need, someone who actually cares what they are doing and shows an interest in their little, and sometimes big, problems. Most kids are perceptive enough to know when their parents actually care or just tolerate them.

Well now there I have to agree with you, some folk do not seem to get the idea of personal responsibility at all. Like those lawsuits, why were the folks not checking the report cards(progress reports) from the school long before the kid got to the serious failure stage..and even, as in a case I read of lately, who in the hell is hiring treachers who cannot themselves read!
My conscience is clear enough, I did baby sit when my gkids were small, was running my own business from home at the time so worked it all in together, and taught them tools and materials handling as well, plus plenty of aside-vocalization about, 'hey, got to get this one done, this lady has been waiting x-weeks' and such like; Standards!
And Mark's is, I expect. No children of his own, but takes pains to try to assist my gkids and his half-sibs (much younger than he), listening non-judgementally when they have problems, and sometimes when a money push will get them going where they can grow he puts that in too.

I dont see what to do about it all in a general sense,tho, except raise pointed hell over the quality of public teaching. Seems to me about all we can do, like I said earlier, is be there for those we can reach,& hope the idea spreads?

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