Re: Scottish politics on Radio 4


<Boedicia@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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R.Peffers wrote:
<Boedicia@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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R.Peffers wrote:
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Bob the Builder wrote:
"Craig Cockburn" <craig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/schedule/2006/01/30/day/
snip
I have been on this NG for 10 years, that's about 8 years longer than
you.
You can't count, I've been around a bit more than 2 years.

As for spelling England the way you illiterates spell it being a
"group joke",
I have come to the conclusion that the only jokes in this NG are
anti-English

Please yourself, it's a free world.
moronic *cots like you.

Again, please yourself. Your opinion is of great importance --- to
yourself.

Now I want you to consider this carefully before answering.

Often when listening to mainly English people on the media I hear them
speak
of, "England", when they actually mean Great Britain or the United
Kingdom.
I hear them call our Monarch, "The Queen of England". They say things
like,
"The whole country", when they mean all four home countries.

What the hell does *that* mean!!! "The whole country" means the
whole of
the U.K. doesn't it? and "The Nation" also means the whole of the
U.K.


From the COD:
nation / n.
1 a community of people of mainly common descent, history, language, etc.,
forming a state or inhabiting a territory.

English history and Scottish history only became common after 1707.

Scotland has three languages, Gaelic, Lowland Scots and English. We only
share one with England.
We do not inhabit the same terrotory but are two different countries.
Scotland and England have their own Education systems.
Scotland and England have their own national Church systems.
Scotland has her own financial institutions.
Scotland and England have different legal systems.
Scotland and England have their own Police Forces.

So what do you think?

As to country or more correctly countries - The United Kingdom came about
due King James VI becoming also King James I of England, in 1606. (Note the
Scots monarch is called King of Scots but the same person is King of
England, i.e. he is king over the Scottish people but he owns all England
including his subjects.

Over a hundred years later there was a Treaty of Union which was followed by
each parliament drawing up an Act of Union - Note that this was two
different acts for you cannot have a single act until after the Union is
passed in both country's parliament.

Thus we have two countries who already share a common monarch now forming a
political and they called it The United Kingdom in 1707.
Now Wales was taken in war and subsumed into England before these dates and
the whole of Ireland was also taken in war and subsumed into England.
However Scotland joined them as a partnet and not a subject.

Thereafter as late as 1916 Ireland split into The Irish Republic and
Northern Ireland with the Republic becoming independent from, (NOT ENGLAND),
but the United Kingdom.

So - no - the whole United Kingdom is composed of four countries and is not
itself a country. Furthermore only three of those countries are mature
enough to be trusted to have some devolved powers but England has no
parliament of her own for The present Westminster Parliament building was
purpose built on the site of the old English parliament after that much
smaller building was burnt to the ground :-
"The Commons assembled in St Stephen's until 1834 when the Palace was burned
down. This fire destroyed almost all of the Palace except Westminster Hall,
the crypt of St Stephen's Chapel, the adjacent cloisters and the Jewel
Tower".

The present Westminster has thus only ever been the UK's parliament and it
passed from the Royal court into the publics hans arounf 1965.

>
They talk of
the National Gallery when they mean the Englisg National Gallery for
Scotland has the "Scottish National Gallery".

Scotland is *not* a nation, it is a part of the U.K. which *is* The
Nation.
Sorry again but see above for definition of nation and below for:-
However again from the COD:-
country / n. (pl. -ies)
1 a the territory of a nation with its own government; a state. b a
territory possessing its own language, people, culture, etc.
So to return to the thorny problem of England being a country it is
debatable if she is for England has no government of her own but shares it
with the other three countries in the Union. Again England no longer has a
common language for she is now multi-cultural and is composed of several
different peoples who seem not to be assimilating and thus has no one
culture.
So - what do you think?


The National trust, The FA and many others.

Ditto.
Not so it is the FA but the SFA National Trust and The Scottish National
Trust.


The we have, "The Premiership", yet the original Prenier League
was in Scotland. We listen to the weather reports and never can tell what
the weather person means when talking about, "In the north", for they
often
mean the north of England rather than the north of the Britisg Isles.

The word is "British".
I admit the typo - but surely we are not going to sink to a spelling
slanging match? Remamber I am an old man who suffers from arthritis and
typing is not so easy. However, if you rreally feel you must sink to that
level, be aware you will be reminded of every mistake, mistyping,
punctuation and gramatical error from this point onward.

We get
news reports along the lines of, "Everyone is to get a free health MOT",
but
everyone is NOT to have va free MOT for the Scottish Health service in
Scotland is NOT part of England.

Then perhaps it should be. One nation means exactly that.
As already shown we are not one nation, nor one country but we are one
state, (i.e., a political union.)
Again from the COD:
State: an organized political community under one government; a
commonwealth; a nation. b such a community forming part of a federal
republic, esp. the United States of America. (interestingly The United
Kingdom us a group of countries that form a stste while the USA is a number
of states that form a country.

Let me point out to you that if you accept the United Kingdom as being one
country or nation then you must also accept the European Union as also, by
definition, onas being one country or nation for this also fits the same
definition. In my book it is far better to accept the UK as several
countries or nations formed into one political state rather than the
alternative.

Then we have that little slight to Scottish
football on ITV teletext where they have a heading, "Premiership/Old
Firm",
as if the likes of Hibernian FA, who have beaten Rangers 3 times this
season, do not matter. We also have a country that has no parliament of
its
own attempting to hi-jack the Westminster parliament by excluding Scots
based Westminster MPs from, "English Only", debates.

If Scotland had not demanded their own Parliament all this nonsense
would not have
been necessary.
Err no! The one country out of step is England for Wales, N.Ireland and
Scotland all have a parliament it is England that is the odd one out.

It is only those in *your* part of The Nation who
have a silly
inferior compex who expect the English taxpayer to support your daft
imitation
of a real Parliament who have caused these problems.
I have proven that the Scots, Welsh and N.Irish subsidise the English and
you have yet to back up your daft claim with any facts or figures.

I ask you again ===============

WHAT IS THE SOLE REASON FOR THE BARNETT FORMULA AND WHEN IS IT INVOKED?

"Scots get 600 pounds more per head than the English"
Telegraph
Not the full story I'm afraid for the English are funded as the UK while
everyone else is funded by a block grant thus funds from the rest of the UK
have to be extracted from the per capita figures to make them right. Now
what was that I asked you about that formula? Is the light begining to dawn?

And *that* was years ago, God knows what it is now!!
Roughly the same as it always was and that is without taking into account
the Continental shelf income from Scottish waters and that all means the
Scots subsidise England.
Let me ask you another simple question: If the Scots,N.Irish and Welsh are
such a big burden on England why are the Scots, N.Irish and Welsh clamouring
to be free of the burden of England while the English fight tooth and nail
to avoide having their own parliament and to hold fast to the rest of us. As
Sir Sean Says, "Shomshing wrong shomwhere".



There is no such thing
for every MP in the Westminster Parliament is an elected member to that
house and every debate in that house is a United Kingdom debate and,
until
England is financed by Westminster as England rather than as, "The UK",
then
everything in England is a matter fot the UK parliament.

So you are upset at a little in joke that seems to have wooshed right
over
your head. BTW: You mentioned that you have been on this NG for 10 years
yet
your headers show several groups. As we often say in Scotland, "Awa an
bile
yer heid"

I don't speak Pidgin English, I went to a good school. Please
repost in English.
You are posting in a Scottish newsgroup so bloody well live with it and
furthermore it is not Pigin English but the equally ancient, and still in
common use, Scottish Lallans. For the most part I have indulged your
foreighn tongue and probably have a rather better command of your language
than you have of mine.
snip

You really are a birk and you come here with unsupported claims that you
have no idea of how to back up with facts. Just how much of a fool do you
think it makes you look when the people on this group are constantly proving
their points with proper facts while all you can manage is a constant dirge
of un-provable baseless claims.
So - go on then - give us the proof that England is subsidising Scotland.
Show that the Barnett Formula does something other than repay the Scots for
what the English have already spent from the UK funds and then disprove that
the oil from the North Sea is not from Scottish territory and is taken into
account when Scotland's contribution is being calculated. After that you can
make a start to calculate how much of the tax paid by the UK wide companies
and the international companies was from profits, tax, excise and duties
earned in Scotland. Mind you before you do keep in mind that it has already
been done and the figures are at hand if you know where to look for them.
BTW: Some of us have already done so and that is why we can shoot down all
your hollow claims with such ease.

--

Frae Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).


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