Re: Malaysian Catholics win right to challenge 'Allah' ban: lawyer

Again, a big SIGH !!!!

Please, my friend, please look at this matter from the viewpoint of
history, not from the viewpoint of religion.

Take off your religious hat, will you? If you really want to discuss
this matter, you need to take off your religious hat.

Hey, you can see from my email address that I'm a Catholic. But I am
NOT here as a Catholic, I am here as a human being, trying to talk
sense to another human being.

If you can try to be a human being for a moment, and not a Muslim (I
am not saying you betraying your religion, what I am saying is to put
aside your religious upbringing for a moment so we can discuss mano-a-
mano, okay?), then we can have a true talk. Or else, you would truck
out your religious thing and I will do likewise and we will be only
talk AT each other, and not be communicating at all.

If you want to do that, if you CAN do that, come back and tell me.

Then we talk.

Okay?




On May 6, 11:52 am, sam1...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On May 6, 10:56 pm, pg <pen...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Sigh !!!

Nowadays people wanna talk, but without any knowledge of the subject.
Okay lah, a brief history.

Look, the word "Allah" came from "Al Illah" --- meaning "The
worshipped".

I differ in the translation and meaning.

If you have access to Lane's Arabic English Lexicon , Allah
means :
"The Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising
all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the
true god ... the 'al' being inseparable from it, not derived..."

In other words Allah : "The One True God" not "the
worshipped" as pointed out by you.

Allah is not contracted from the word Al-ilah as linguistically
it is already wrong. Consider the expression Ya Allah (O' Allah)
, when 'ya' is used the al must be dropped as in the following
example : you cannot say 'ya ar-rabb' but 'ya rabb' for O'Lord.
Therefore Allah is a name and not a derivation of a name as
the 'al' is not separated from it per your example of Al-ilah.



The Arabs, before they were Arabs, were already worshiping the moon.
This is understandable.

People living on a very harsh desert are constantly struggling against
the elements. Day time, the sun is so fierce, so hot, that people
living on the desert don't feel like worshipping an "***", so to
speak.

At night, the desert becomes cooler. It's time to rest, and to
contemplate. Unfortunately, night also means darkness, and people are
afraid of darkness.

And here comes the moon. A gentle source of light. Something that
gives so generously and yet NOT punishing, unlike the Sun.

So the people living on the Sahara start falling in love with the
Moon. They start worshiping this gentle thing that gives them light at
night, for almost 14 days, and then she'd disappear for 14 more days,
and then re-appear.

When the Moon wasn't in place, people missed her a lot. So people
start singing songs about her, worshiping her, and they even make
their calendar according to the Moon.

Now do you know why the Islamic calendar is based on moon cycle???

Talking about the significance of the moon cycles in the Islamic
Calender , all semitic culture adopts the moon cycles as the
calender. When we say semitic culture , its the area of the Mid
East.
ref :http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/what-is-the-significance...
Excerpt of the last paragraph :
"... In ancient times, the phases of the moon were an easy
means of measuring the passage of time. The first calendars
were lunar calendars. Ancient civilizations such as the Assyrians,
Babylonians, Egyptians and the Chinese used the lunar calendar.
The Semitic culture also adopts this calendar, with the exception
of Christianity, which uses the solar calendar due to pagan
Hellenistic influences by Greco-Roman culture. There is therefore
no logical reason to associate the lunar calendar of Islam with
moon worship"

In general , your assertion of the moon cycles being made into
a calender from the worship of the moon is off the mark. Its not
due to the fact that the people at that time worshipped the moon
but a measure of time using the phases of the moon. Thats about
it , worshipping of the moon has got nothing to do with the lunar
calender. .



Back to the Moon thing. You see, the people on the Sahara plain had
worshiped the Moon LONG BEFORE the advent of Christianity. The word
"Allah" was "invented" almost 4,000 years ago, plus minus several
hundred years.

Oh, btw, at that time, the pre-Arabs were worshiping a lot of
"deities", but the Moon remains the MOST IMPORTANT deity.

This is where your definition of Al-ilah is correct. The people at
that time worshipped dieties & the moon etc. This I agree with
you.



Later, when Jesus arrives, he started a new movement (it wasn't a
religion yet). After his death (and some say re-surrection), his
movement spread.

BTW, Jesus' idea of "ONE GOD" actually came from the Jewish custom ---
Jesus himself was a Jew. S

So after Jesus' passing (go up to heaven, or death, whichever one you
choose to believe), his movement turns into a religion. The concept of
ONE GOD also spread throughout the Saharan desert plain.

People start worshiping ONE GOD. Those who chose to believe in the NEW
(and ONLY) GOD uses the word "Allah" as the name. The name "Yaweh" was
from the Jews. We are talking now about the Arabs. Those who converted
into Christianity use "Allah" as the name of the new God.

Only later, when Mohammad invented yet another religion -- Islam ---
that they stop believing in Jesus. But STILL the concept of ONE GOD
stuck. And because the word "Allah" had been used (by the time of
Mohammad) by the people for already THOUSANDS OF YEARS, they just
continue to use that "Allah" name for their newest version of "God".

Now you see, my dear friend, it's not about what Christian wants ...
it's about a tradition on the Saharan desert plain.

If you want to deny the Christians of the use of "Allah", then you
ought to deny the Muslim from using "Allah" as well ... because, if we
trace it WAY, WAY BACK, the word "Allah" really meant the MOON.

Yes, the SAME MOON that we still see in this age. (Today no moon,
sorry, wait 3 more days and you'll start seeing the "Original Allah"
appearing).

Get it now, my dear friend?

Please do not make this a religious thing. It's just an old tradition,
okay ?

Thank you !!!

Do you know what you have just said , this means that Prophet
Moses (ra) , Prophet Jesus (ra) and Prophet Muhammad (saw)
all preached only ONE god (ie. from the belief of Prophet
Abraham (ra). This means Yahweh , Allha (Aramic as spoken
by Prophet Jesus (ra)) and Allah means ONE TRUE GOD (ie.
monotheism).

However you have missed a subtle but big difference , all
of the above - Yahweh , Allaha and Allah are root names and
they are not derived from Al-ilah as claimed by you because
they do not mean 'the worshipped' but 'The One True God'.

Your explanation of Allah going back to be a moon god in the
pre islamic period is highly misleading and off the mark. You
came to this conclusion because you are equating the name
Allah to the derivation of the arabic noun 'ilah'. The same could
be said of Yahweh and Allaha , they are names not derivation
from a noun in their own language. Therefore its not about 'old
tradition' as mentioned by you but the proper usage of the
actual names of god.

Coming back to my question :
Allah (Yahweh , Allha) means 'The One True God'.
Couple of things to note :
- One God
- No gender connotation

So where does it fit into the christian belief of a triune god and
the 'son of god' being a male? Logically it does not fit in any
manner - so why use it?

Why the arab christians use the name Allah for their belief
of the christian god - I do not know - could be that they do
not have a better word or name.

I have got no issues if you christians want to use the word
Allah to call your god.
My question is that are you using it in the right context?
If not , why use it?

My gut feel is that you guys are in an opinion that it makes
proselytisation of muslims in this parts of the world easier.
If this is so , lets be honest about it. Religion is a personal
matter , if a person decides to convert , there is nothing
others can do.

sam1528

--snip--
.