Re: Lebanon: A Failed State?
- From: Aviroce <dudaraster@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:13:16 -0800 (PST)
YOU ARE MISSING MY MESSAGES FULLY. I AM LOOKING AT THE ARAB/ISLAMIC
WORLD AS ONE THAT SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF COLONIALISM AND OCCUPATION,
ZIONISM AND ATROCITIES AND EXPROPRIATION. LEBANON IS A PIECE OF THE
ACTION. THE FACT THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE VOTED FOR THIS OR THAT IS
IMPORTANT IN TRANSFERING PERSONAL FORCE TO PUBLIC FORCE REPRESENTED BY
THE ELECTED. BUT THE ELECTED SHOULD HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO SEE WHAT IS
HAPPENNING TO HIS COMMUNITY, COUNTRY WITHIN OTHER COUNTRIES OF WHICH
IT IS ONE. THIEVES CAN BE DEMOCRATIC. EVEN RACISTS CAN BE DEMOCRATIC
AMONG THEMSELVES. LOOK AT ISRAEL. ISRAEL IS A TYRANNY, AN APARTHEID
STATE. BUT THE JEWS ACT DEMOCRATICALLY IN ELECTING MEMBERS OF THE
TYRANNY. GANGSTERS CAN BE DEMOCRATIC. BUT GANGSTERS HAVE THEIR
ATROCITIES AGAINST THEIR VICTIMS. WHAT WE CALL MURDERERS, ATROCIOUS,
TORTURERS ARE RESPECTED ISRAELI MEMBERS OF SOCIETY. SO IT IS A
MATTER OF HOW THE SOCIAL FORCE IS USED WITHIN THE PERIMETERS OF ITS
On Dec 1, 10:34 am, BasilRathbone2...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 28, 2:52 am, Aviroce <dudaras...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Posting the article as it stands without your input is an indication
that you agree with it. You could have placed a comment or
Destroying any country is not something one likes. But here is the
problem: Israel planned house to house invasion of Lebanon with all
these houses, streets, all topography on their computer program. It
was a matter when to execute the plan. Hezbollah took over an Israeli
post. Why should Israel then declare war on all Lebanon other than
the plan they already had concucted? More over why should Israeli
planes destroy all of Lebanon, at least vital parts all over Lebanon,
while Hezbollah was in South Lebanon? Why Israel had to slaughter
women and children in South Lebanon knowingly? Hezbollah acted with
restraints. Israel acted with viciousness. Ask yourself why?
If you read the articles I quoted from the Associated Press, these
articles indicate that the United States of America is the main
stakeholder and determined party to install a government in Lebanon as
a proxy for it and Israel. Fuad Saniora is the main agent who is
holding a position against the written constitution of Lebanon.
Lahoud did the right thing handing the government to defenders of
Lebanon, the Army.
As for Hariri, he should not have been assassinated. But the
assassination is an internal problem for Lebanon. The United States
of America scared Syria out of Lebanon by placing some cloud over
Syria's possible involvement in the assassination. It seems to me the
assassination has been an internal job. But Syria has been the main
block for the United States of America and Israel to get Lebanon to be
a proxy for them. Now Syria is out. Hezbollah is the only force to
stop these colonial powers to take over Lebanon.
Of course, I would like Lebanon to be a country for the Lebanese. But
colonialism is forcing even the direction of negotiation to settle an
internal problem of Lebanon.
Believe me Iran and Syria are the main countries that are holding the
colonization of All Arab and Muslim countries at bay. The United
States of America is doing its colonization through the indigenous
people and not as direct as that in Iraq and Afghanistan. Another
good example is the occupation of Somalia. USA sponsored Ethiopian
troops to do its bidding. In Darfur, the United States of America is
using African Muslims against the Sudanese government to do its
bidding. Beware of the big wolf!!
On Nov 27, 2:22 am, BasilRathbone2...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:01 pm, Aviroce <dudaras...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
BasilRathborne: You identified difficiencies in Lebanon. But you
were partial to Hezbollah. You indicated that Hezbollah is the major
problem. I disagree with that.
You also did not identify the "Invisisble Hands" (visible only to
outsiders and not to Lebanese). Two major "invisible hands" are the
United States of America and Israel. Two others are France and
Italy. As the super power, the United States of America is directing
Lebanon towards the abyss. Like you, the United States of America is
planning to colonize Lebanon by proxy and kill Hezbollah using
Lebanese. Hezbollah could not be defeated in thirty-four days by
Israel backed by the United States of America. Now the United States
of America wants to use the proxy government, illegally
constitutionwise, of Fuad Saniora to kill Hezbollah.
You are a sophisticator politician. By omission you included. By
inclusion you promoted Israel and the United States. May be I should
describe you as a "Western Rattle Snake."
Aviroce, if you looked above my name is not Ghassan.
The person who wrote the article is named Ghassan.
I am not subscribing to all of anyone's views. I do agree with
Ghassan that Hezbollah operates at the behest of outsiders when
compared to the Lebanese Government. Why? The government represents
the majority of the Lebanese people as reflected in the elections.
Opinion polls have shown that Sunni and Christian support has moved
towards the government in the past year. So whatever one might say
about the US or Iran, the people of Lebanon are increasingly leaning
toward the government. It doesn't mean Hezbollah has not played a
positive role in Lebanon in the past in fighting Israel. Hezbollah
has done that. There is no denying that, but harming Lebanese
businesses, blocking a tribunal into the assassination of Hariri all
in the name of opposing "U.S. interests" really begs serious questions
from people who are nationalists.
Who cares about Eastern and Western? What matters is
that the people of Lebanon need to choose. You said the government is
legitimate. The elections were clear. Most Lebanese voted for March
14th. How hard is that for you to understand? Hezbollah fought
Israel. The war was ended largely because Seniora and others in the
Middle East and Europe were screaming for it to end. It caused
billions in damage, and you think that's a victory? I don't see
bringing war and destruction to a country as victory where your
children or your neighbours children needlessly get killed?
Have you had any friends who had fathers who died on their way to the
supermarket because of war? Hezbollah is not the government but acts
like it is the government. It receives its money and backing from
Iran. The Lebanese tax payers who spend on the government are not
Iranians, Syrians. So what are you talking about when it comes to
The Lebanese Army recognizes the government and so does the rest of
the world. Hezbollah does not, but who gave Hezbollah the majority of
seats or Aoun? No one did. You are basically accusing the Lebanese
Army, the Lebanese Government and over 50% of the population to be
traitors. Good job. Hezbollah has a right to oppose, but they must
accept the constitution. And you must learn to tone down your
fascist, old style rhetoric. I don't care for Bush anymore than
Ahmedinejad or Hugo Chavez... They are all full of rhetoric and
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Aviroce, you seem to miss the point over
and over again and 1,000 times. Fouad Seniora represents the
constituency that supports him, and he comes from that. The United
States did not force people to vote for the Future Bloc anymore than
Iran forced people of the South to choose Hezbollah. You keep on
discounting the Lebanese peoples' votes as if they are nothing to
you. These people have a right to their future, their economy, their
children and to be free from war. The majority of Lebanese people
voted for March 14th. That should mean something. Saudi Arabia
didn't force them to vote a certain way. What happened? From 1990 til
2004 the Sunni community was rather silent to some extent about the
way Syria's government (not the people) were raping Lebanon, putting
Lebanese in Syrian jails and murdering them which you don't seem to
care about and this includes Palestinians and Lebanese of all
religions they wanted to have disappeared. But I guess they are not
human beings because Syria is right if they are against America in
anything even if it means killing 10,000 people in Hama. Let me
guess, Israel made Syria kill 10,000 people in Hama?
How about taking responsibility for the bad actions of Syria and
Iran. Why is everything so clean with Iran and Syria and everything
so bad with Seniora, Saudi Arabia, the people who voted for March 14th
who gave them a majority backing?
You, like Hezbollah, only like democracy when it goes your way,
obviously. It is kind of typical of fanatical views.
Hamas, for exampe, only liked democracy when it got them elected, but
then they didn't want elections even though most Palestinians want
elections. Most Lebanese, actually, want democracy, ya zalameh... Get
with the programme..
As far as Hezbollah, let us not
kid ourselves, yes they killed many Israelis, but Israel can burn
Lebanon and Syria to the ground if they want. You know that for
sure. That is not good for Lebanon. This has cost Lebanon billions
in damage as you well know. Did Hezbollah pay money to the people of
Beirut for the damages? Do you think Israel will? Did the people of
Beirut ask for this? No. They don't support Hezbollah. They don't
want their homes bombed, they don't want the conflict. Maybe you
do. Hezbollah acted on its own when it crossed a certain territorial
line to take Israeli soldiers. They even later said if they knew the
damage it would cause they would do it and then they changed their
story to talk of a great victory. It is basically B.S. politics.
Yes, the Israelis suffered many casualties and were embarassed, but
Hezbollah acted on its own irrespective of the wishes of the majority
of Lebanese people and knowing Israel can, in response, inflict damage
not only on people from the South who are Hezbollah's constituency but
also people who never vote for Hezbollah type candidates in the other
parts of the country. Why should Hezbollah play God with the lives of
the whole country? As far as Lahoud, he did not have a popular mandate
like Rafiq Al Hariri. Speaking of a popular mandate, Seniora also
has a popular mandate. He has done a good job in a country that has
too much chaos. I am sorry, but I don't have much respect for people
sitting in tents harming their country's businesses and collecting
checks from Iran. That money belongs to poor Iranian people and
people need to roll up ...
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