Re: Saniora's government to stay despite Hizballah's objection


DrSMITH wrote:
Basil H wrote:
[...]
All Lebanese factions including Aoun have sought support
from the outside. Aoun was lobbying in Washington against Syrian
presence not too long ago,

Granted. Syria has withdrawn from Lebanon.

No thanks to Aoun, though he was quick to take credit for it, but it
was due to the international pressure following the assasination
of Hariri.

now all of a sudden he has found new
allies in Iran and Syria and has adopted a thinly veiled independent
Lebanon stance.

This is Hariri/Jumblatt propaganda with no single shred of proof or
evidence. Many on SCL have been parroting the above repeatedly, reason
for which I stopped participating for a while. I thought that occurring
events would reveal more to talk about instead of debating the
propaganda itself.

My opinion, is that Aoun's rhetoric is propaganda. The contention that
Aoun is now allied with Syria is bourne out by facts on the ground
not by my rhethoric. When he supports Hizbollah, Syria's main
agent provocateurs in Lebanon he is effectively allied to Syria.
This is not opinion, just simple logic.


That still does not make him a nationalist, just an opportunist
that always choses the wrong side.

That's your opinion which is based on simple prejudice. Moreover, it
has a grave accusation against Aoun of being a non-nationalist. I'm not
going to defend (it's up to him really) but I'm going to ask you, who's
the nationalist then? Those who seek American-Israeli help against
other Lebanese?

Who sought help from Israel ? The Sanioura government stood against
Israel during its wanton aggression on Lebanon. Why try to paint
your political opponents as Israel accomplices ? This common tactic
used by Syria is laughable and does not work.
As for seeking help from the United States, that is
true the Sanioura government tried to get the US to pressure Israel
to stop its aggression on Lebanon. That is is understandable given
the fact that they can influenece Israel the most. I know
Bush was somewhet reluctant to stop Israel immediately,
but eventually, enough pressure was brought to bare by
the Arabs, the Europeans as well as US public opinion to force him
to pressure Israel into a cease fire. This is how international
politics
work, you have to work with the country that has the most influence
on Israel and at this point it is the United States.

Or those who welcome a foreign politician who has
opposed calls for stopping the killing of innocent Lebanese civilians?

Lebanon is freer now with UNIFIL forces protection than it ever
was under Syrian tutelage.

Wouldn't it be freer without those forces?

Yes it would, but the UN does not try to influence us as much
as Syria or Israel would, so given the alternatives, I will take
UN forces over any other foreign presence.

Your memory is very short
and you forget that this is an already old scenario that's repeating
itself. Do you remember what it took those forces to leave back in the
80s?

Are you talking about the multinational force that was trying
to help stabilize Lebanon after the Israeli invasion? They were
in my opinion a lot of help, and I was sorry to see them leave
due to the terrorism of Hizbollah, which was followed
by total Syrian dominance over Lebanon. I would have rather
see them stay, than see Lebanon taken over by the
murderous regime in Damascus.

Your argument ignores history and therefore opens the door for you
to commit the same mistake people did back then: relying on foreign
help instead of trusting Lebanon unity.

History lessons depend on which side you look at it, from my
perspective
the lesson learned is that the US government should not have allowed
the terrorists of Hizbollah intimidate the into leaving. That
emboldened
the terrorists of Hizbollah and strengthened rogue regimes like
the Syrian and Iranian ones.

Aoun found the anti-western tune as soon as he was
sidelined by the west for his pro-Syrian positions.

You're adopting pitiful propaganda with no meaning whatsoever - just
empty words. Care to explain what the above means?

It means Aoun changed his position and started to support pro-Syrian
forces in Lebanon. He is an arrogant megalomaniac, opportunistic
deranged coward, is that clear enough ?

He would be fine with western protection if he was in charge.
Aoun and Hizbollah dont mind ruling over a burned Lebanon
as long as they are in charge of the ruins.

A hidden accusation that Hezbollah is responsible for what the Israelis
did. With all due respect, there can be no more childish argument...

They caused this calamity on Lebanon, by starting the aggression
and holding on to their arms. This is not childish, just the facts.

Is Hizbollah's money not coming from Iran?

Your question is a conjecture, but supposing it's true,

A conjecture ? Their bundles of American cash grew on trees ?

is not money
coming from Saudi Arabia and other places in the world?

Yes, but those are being funneled to the legitimate Lebanese
government, not to a terrorrist group, trying to operate
a state within a state, and intimidate the rest of Lebanonwith their
arams.

What's the
objective of this question? Someone else on SCL made a funny remark
that it was blood money. So if a drug lord decides to give money
anonymously to homeless people, should they ask where it came from, or
should they use it to build a house? It comes down to a simple matter
of ethics. Well guess what: your opinion and mine are irrelevant and do
not apply!

I will never forget when during the war, foreign aids were sent, and in
the Christian region where I lived, only my Maronite neighbors got
their big box full of food. I would have accepted any food aid back
then even if it came from Israel! So don't come to me with morals and
high standards and foreign affiliation plots when people have their
houses destroyed and such money can rebuild it (especially when our
government is not helping and its alibi is to not increase the debt!)

The government is helping, in fact it will pay the larger share of the
bill.
Iran's dirty money is only for show. A governement cannot
go handing out cash immediately. It is much more of a bureaucratic
process that takes some time to establish. Not the same as with
a terrorist group like hizbollah that receives cash coming in trucks
across the Syrian border.

but they are real
national heroes to you. Please do not give us any more
double standards.

What double standards? Aoun *used* the international community to get
the Syrians out without paying any price and broke with them.

Aoun "used" no one. He did not get the Syrians out despite your
claims.
He claimed that he did but Syria did not leave until Hariri was
assasinated.
Aoun is an arrogant ass that was quick to attribute the glory to
himself.
The only thing he "used" is probably some drugs, that he needs to talk.

The price
this government has made Lebanon pay in one month with its alliances
has already surpassed any former record in Lebanon's history!

What price Lebanon pay ? All foreign governments are now pledging
financial aid to Lebanon thanks to Sanioura and his governement.
May god bless him, he is a true national hero.

Add to
that the major theft of foreign aid! Articles that came to Lebanon as a
gift were sold in supermarkets! Now you tell me about the double
standards!

There was theft, like in all of Lebanon's history. Corruption is
rooted in
Lebanon's culture and is not a product of this particular government.
Hopefully it will be kept to a minimum. It is often the result of
abuses
by lower level employees, that will do the same regardless of which
government is in charge. It will take years of progress before we rid
Lebanon of the system of graft and corruption and I believe that
Sanioura
is trying to move in that direction. However, these kinds of reforms
take years to accomplish due to the entrenched nature of the problem.

A small country like Lebanon in an
explosive region like the middle east cannot be truly independent
and we are better off being dependent on western powers
than on the backward mullahs in Iran or the thuggish mafia
ruling Syria.

If we can't be independent, then let's cancel the State.

That is foolish. No country in the world is truly independent.
All countries need alliances to survive and prosper. You just have
to choose your allies, and my contention is that alliance
with Europe and the west in general is much more beneficial
to Lebanon that allying itself to dictatorships and dying regimes,
like the ones ruling Iran and Syria.

Let's divide
the country and those living in each part pledge allegiance to whoever
they want: Keserwan and northern Beirut to France, the South and Bekaa
to Iran, the North coast and western Beirut to Saudi Arabia, the North
mountains to Syria and Let Jumblatt have his own independent Druze
empire island! You're not making sense and you're justifying what Aoun
(and Hezbollah) are fighting against: western power interference.


Aoun and Hizbollah are fighting to reinstate Syrian influence and
preserve
Iranian influence over Lebanon.
Western power interference is not the problem, they are helping
Lebanon.
The problem is Syria and Iran. They are the states that support
terrorism
and their negative influence on Lebanon is what is causing Lebanon to
have wars.

Basil

DrSMITH.

Basil

.

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