Re: The Knife in the Back

josephmouhanna@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
[...]
No, I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies. As for forseeing the
future, I am asking for a crystal ball, simply Nesrallah's admission
that he had foreknowledge of Israel's plan. It's really that simple.
You can't have your cake and eat it on this one.

If you acknowledge Nasrallah's admission of foreknowledge, you're
admitting the existence of future premonition.
All the arguments relative to this issue becomes irrelevant hereafter.

[...]
I will start discussing the prisoners issue with you when you can
actually quantify it.

All I have for now is a reporter's statement on TV in which he
mentioned 400. Still waiting for more info to confirm it.

[...]
If Hezballah instead of attacking would have allowed the Lebanese
government to plead its case to the UN, everything would have changed.

They had a year to deal with it and no results.

[...]
Glad you clarified it. Let's go another round when the rebuilding is
done. I take it you noticed the contradictions in your statement above,
when you know full well that Hezballah has no source for arms except
through Syria and Iran, making it a recipient of foreign help. But this
is not bad for unity?

It is if it continues.

[...]
You seem to be more than happy to accept Hezballah's promises at their
face value, even though their history suggests [...]

Yes I am accepting Hezbollah's promises and I trust I'm right. If it
turns out to be a mistake, I will admit it. Can you accept that? Would
you be disappointed if it turns out I'm right?

[...]
FYI, the 400 number you're throwing around is from an old
Tayyar web page (don't know if it still there), and it refers to
Lebanese prisoners in Syrian jails.

I didn't get the number there, and I did state that it wasn't enough.

[...]
I don't trust him, never did, never will.

But there's no bias on your part. Glad we cleared this up.

He has a long history of deceit. Hezbollah has followed the same
principles since the beginning. For the first time they are trying to
integrate. You would be in your right not to trust them. But to assume
they're incapable of keeping their word due to whatever you put forward
seems to me like a bias. I'm not asking you to change your position or
to stop mistrusting, but I am advocating the benefit of the doubt. Time
will tell if you were right with your reserve, but why do you oppose
such a possibility?

[...]
I am a bit confused, but isn't the complete destruction of Lebanon
proof enough that Hezballah should have accepted to be disarmed?
[...]
More confusion on my part, but Hezballah's way is what we've been
looking at for the past 35 days.

Actually, I see it the other way around. It was the government apparent
majority's stubbornness that lead us to this. They refused to deal with
Hezbollah. As for the other confusion, what you have seem for the past
35 days is Israel's way and you're imputing it to Hezbollah - a
recurrent attribution on your behalf.

[...]
No problem from my end. Why not allow the national dialog to take its
course before attacking Israel, triggering regional implications and
taking Lebanon back several decades?

Because it reached a deadlock. I advocated transparency with Basil on
this point since we are being kept in the dark. We don't know what
really happened in the Dialog except for bits and pieces here and
there. I haven't heard the version of either Hariri or Jumblatt
although Aoun has openly provoked them about the subject (on LBC with
Marcel Ghanem).

[...]
You either have to agree that
countries have interests only, and at some point, they expect to be
paid back, and payback is rarely in Lebanon's interests, or you have to
extend the same privilege to all other parties within Lebanon and give
them the same benefit of the doubt you're according Hezballah.

As I already said, we have bits and pieces coming from the joint
statement folks, and nothing from the other side. Either they are
hiding their malice, or they're too shy to openly express their
nationalism. I wouldn't mind giving them the benefit of the doubt, but
I need something in exchange, a sign, a clear statement about their
objectives and goals, about the reason for their stubbornness and its
national validity.

[...]
That's because your statements are contradictory. Either countries have
friends or they don't and have interest. Which is it? you can't pick
and chose based on your biases.

There are different types of interests in here. We wouldn't mind
economic friendship with the US, we wouldn't mind if Iran decides to
build an oil duct through Lebanon, we wouldn't mind if Syria gives its
ok on such a project. You're seeing a bias where there's relativity and
no absolutes. We need economic friendship, not of the political
interference kind.

[...]
So, it's your personal opinion.

Of course. Do you think for a minute that I can speak on behalf of
others without showing credentials? But this doesn't mean that others
do no share my concerns.

[...]
As for the reason why you should care, it's simply because of
your position: who will you support?

The side of peace of course.

There are two opposing political forces in Lebanon for the time being
and each one claims to be on the side of peace.

[...]
But you require evidence when we talk about a Lebanese party, armed by
foreign powers. Double standard, not credible on your part.

No double standards here. Hezbollah never hid its actions. They were
allied with Iran and they split publicly. Maybe it's not evidence for
you, but for the time being, it's enough for me. I would appreciate a
little bit of transparency on the other side.

[...]
Rule by complete concesus is not possible. You agree on a set of
principles, I'm with you, and the only thing that will work here is a
100% secular democracy with constitutional protections. Anything else
is pure politicking, no matter where it comes from. Those complaining
today were not complaining when the tables were turned (and yes, I am
talking Aoun specifically when he was named Prime Minister under
conditions that did not reflect the will of the majority).

I mentioned an agenda - principles. I wouldn't mind secularism though I
know it's hard and needs a complete consensus.
Aoun was made Prime Minister by a constitutional instance being the
Lebanese Army's general because elections - the process of reflecting
the will of the majority - failed to take place.

[...]
This also. It works both ways for Hezbollah and Israel. I really hope
that the lesson learned is that you can't solve things militarily in
the Middle East - not anymore.

But you're still trying to justify Hezballah's military actions.

Not justify, but to weigh them according to posterior events. I
disagreed with the military action at first, but now, it has been
drowned in a sea of madness.

[...]
Exactly, but I have no clue what bargaining elements you're referring
to here. We were blown back into the dark ages, and Israel has more
prisoners.

For a single prisoner, they released many. For two, they would release
more at the price of buying peace at their northern border (with
Lebanon, I don't care about Syria).

[...]
I
don't apologize for expressing my impressions.

No matter how ill informed they are....

I can always straighten them through dialogue. We have always debated
and reached consensus. I don't see why it's any different now. Future
events will offer both enough material to reach an agreement. As I
always stated, I'm not immune to errors of judgment.

[...]
The party in question is not claiming to be deprived
anymore, but instead that it's being victimized in order to be kept
politically marginalized.

So they resort to attacking a foreign country to make themselves heard?
What kind of an argument is this?

It wasn't an argument, only a description.

[...]
No we don't. You support their abduction of Israel's soldiers and the
killing of seven Israeli soldiers in the process.

Because it's too late to oppose it. I opposed it at the beginning and
it didn't serve any purpose. I was affected in here. With Lebanon
destroyed, it doesn't matter anymore. All we can do is work towards
avoiding a similar future folly.

[...]
What do you call their attack on Israel, the abduction of two of its
soldiers and the killing of seven other soldiers? A peaceful and
diplomatic overture?

A preemptive attack to impose a diplomatic solution - something the US
foreign policy is used to.

[...]
Careful, you're starting to believe in your own propaganda. Here's a
clue what this was all about "certain politicians need to be reminded
that they're now dealing with a winner", does this ring a bell?

You have to put it in its proper context. Who are those politicians and
why they need to be reminded?

[...]
You clearly did in your response to me, when you were crowing about
Israel's losses. Ask for a second opinion if you don't believe mine.

It is possible that you got the wrong impression. I was talking about
Israel's military losses compared to Hezbollah's. It pains me to know
that there are innocent civilian losses on both sides. But war results
are harsh, and we end up with numbers in history books. Moreover, you
don't have to be more catholic than the pope when publicly an
Arab-Israeli father forgave Hezbollah for the death of his kid. It just
shows that maybe we don't understand how those people think.

[...]
Why has the
government always defended the resistance and all of a sudden wants to
dispel it?

This question has a built-in answer: it is no longer a resistance.

Were the objectives achieved?

[...]
So then you insist that 93% of all Lebanese support Hezballah? Sounds
like election results in Syria.

http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=697321
[Up to 90 percent of the population of the country supports the Shiite
group, regardless of their own religion and ethnicity. "They defend
us," everyone agrees.]
There are many articles that speak of Hezbollah's support in Lebanon,
but very few with numbers. There are opposing numbers too that I
spotted in an article but I was unable to find it.

[...]
They have started to pay the bill.

Sure, by attacking Israel.

No, by starting the construction and insuring everybody has a place to
stay.

[...]
Really? perhaps you don't get CNN, or you have never seen the Kouds day
Hezballah parades in Beirut and Southern Lebanon (started by Iran, but
let's not call that interference, it's an act of love), where hundrds
of Hezballah militants are parading with mock-ups of suicide belts.

Can you point to any news about a Hezbollah suicide bomber?

[...]
So, get your facts straight before

You've seen a lot of TV. A bit of reading about the Shiites would
reveal much more. There was a Spanish documental about Hezbollah aired
on TVE, but I guess you don't see those programs on your cable.

[...]
Ironic how the choice of context is relative to one's measure.

Especiall when you keep missing the entire context.

How not to when you're defining it.

[...]
Still, he called for a dialogue.

Right before he rushed across the border to kill and kidnap Israeli
soldiers.

After that.

[...]
What crap? the spammers? Which SCL'ers, with legitimate email addresses
believed that Hezballah would not survive? Who supported the Bush
doctrine? Even the US populace, with its lack of understanding of
Middle East affairs, gave him only 34% support in how he was handling
the crisis (yes, this is a real stat). Does that say the US thought so?

I meant the government of the US - my mistake.

[...]
Israel did not intrude once in six years.

Oh really?

[...]
Yet, despite being challenged to do so, you cannot name what that
agenda is.

They haven't declared what it is, but the propaganda is the same.
Hezbollah is an Iranian tool. It's responsible for what happened in
Lebanon.

DrSMITH.

[...]

.

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