Re: The Economist: Lebanon most liberal state in the region

"BM" <m-e-d-a-w-a-r@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dme0nf$l67$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> josephmouhanna wrote:
>
>> If you want to work with one particular brand of Linux, and if you decide
>> to go to their web site as a starting point for the Open Source versions,
>> you must register and submit an email address. I even had to register and
>> supply and email name when I went to www.linux.org.
>
> I use Suse.. although I find it easier to buy the distribution.. I thought
> to check to see if it is available for download without providing an email
> address:
>
> http://www.opensuse.org/Released_Version

I went through the Novell site first, tried downloading some things there,
and found out that I had to sign up. I downloaded a trial version of the
enterprise product, and I guess I'm now on their list. The emails I've been
getting are related to the enterprise server (security, etc.). The updates
(65+) that were downloaded are not related to the enterprise server, they
are related to Suse 10, which I downloaded from one of the mirror sites.

> I doubled checked red hat, ditto:
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/4/i386/iso/
>
> No email address needed.. it goes against the open source culture.

Fedora did not require a signup. www.linux.org required signup to
participate.

>>>Reality is that Linux has been around since early 90's, predating
>>>anything since win95. So, law bidha tshati kanit ghayamit. What are the
>>>65+ updates for? :-)
>>
>> Having an OS around since the early 90's does not make it popular.
>
> popularity was not my point.. my point in the context was that the older
> the open source OS the less likely to contain known vulnrabilities.

By that token, Windows must be impregnable :-)

>> A bunch of these updates were for security puprposes. In fact, right
>> before I responded to this, I deleted a message warning that a new
>> security patch for PHP4 is available.
>
> PHP is not Linux. I bet there is PHP4 for Windows. :-)

I bet there is also. This is for the server version of Suse. This is a Linux
implementation though, and you may also notice that a lot of vulnerabilities
in Windows are related to non-Windows specific items, it's the particular
implementation that opens them to attacks: TCP/IP, HTTP, UDP, etc.

[....................]
> I do hope that one day the OS becomes irrelevent. A friend of mine who is
> technophobe keeps wishing for an outket in the wall that says "computer"
> similar to power or telephone outlets :-)

We're not that far from that. I don't see why anyone would need an OS in the
future.

> Bad software is often due to complexity (Jurasic Park comes to mind), the
> rush to get something to market, and disrespect of users (for a $99
> commercial OS don't expect much).

This is not the case. The problem is legacy support, specifically legacy
applications support. Complexity is another issue, and it's imposed on
software designers through the need to support the multitude of protocols
and standards. Before you blame it all on the Emperor, you should probably
attend an IETF meeting and see what kind of complexities that crowd brings
to the table.

You want complexity? I was trying to install Suse on a system with a VIA
network controller. I started getting error messages with CD 5, and it
turned out for some reason, the Network Card support was not installed
properly. I went to the VIA site to download the driver, and I found a
compressed file. I opened the compressed file, and instead of a driver, I
found some source code files, with one page of instructions that starts
with: compile the sources and produce the driver, and then it does not tell
me how to install it. I gave up, as I'm new to Linux and my system did not
even finish installing, and I'm getting error messages trying to start the
development environment, etc. I am alos logged in as a root user, but for
some reason, I cannot even create a folder to save the files, etc. I
received more than 100 error messages (some of the packages refused to
install), etc.

Here's the procedure under the OS that disrespects me: go to the VIA web
site, downloaded the driver, and in the control panel, I selected the system
folder, clicked on the network card icon, and picked update driver. Done.

> I much rather that the OS be unclutered with apps (browser, messenger,
> netmeeting, games, outlook, media player, etc.). Let the user select what
> the user wants to install. The Linux model is ideal:
>
> - The OS development is independent of
> - Utilities development (GNU, perl, etc.)
> - Third party apps (apache, mysql, open office, mozilla, etc.)

It's also very complex and not ready for prime time. What you call
insulting, some people may call a life saver.

> Having one company does all the above is incestuous.

Some people think it's convenient. The Linux model may be ideal for you, but
it seems as if you're saying that what's ideal for you should be ideal for
everyone else :-) Commercial PC vendors have allegiance to no one but their
bottom line, and given that Linux is less expensive (supposedly) than
Windows, they would install it in a heartbeat and cut Microsoft off, if
Linux was ready for the average user.

[................]
>> Agree. One of the primary issues facing them is that they buy PCs for
>> their families and their kids want computer games. This is lacking big
>> time in the Linux world.
>
> Not sure I agree.. rather, you need to define what you mean by "computer
> games". Freeware games have always existed. A typical Linux distrubution
> comes with hundreds of free games.

I'm talking about the real world here Bassem :-), where you have teenagers
and kids who buy Halo, and other games. I'm not talking about the great
games that come with Linux, such as Astronomy, Fractals, and Chemistry :-) I
understand that freeware games have always existed, but come on ....

> The big name game publishers obviously don't develop for Linux because the
> Linux market segment is populated with techies. You give a techie a linux
> game and he/she is liable to pick it appart and redistribute it improved.

Ah, so it's a profit thing :-) OK, name a game that you are likely to find
as part of a "LAN Party" (if you don't know what those are, then don't
bother discussing games :-)).

> The Windows closed environment is a safer bet. Once you stick a game CD
> in it takes over the PC.

It takes over out of necessity today. The processing power (graphics and
CPU) is tremendous. Once things like Physics engines (separate hardware),
dual-processor CPUs, and parallel graphics engines (two separate graphics
buses) are available, then it's possible to do more than one thing on a PC
while playing a powerful game. I recommend picking up PC Gamer magazine and
flipping through the first few pages to appreciate the processing power
needed for one of today's games (Tetris, Astronomy and Solitaire do not
qualify).

> But now the rage is internet games where Windows/Linux is not even
> relevent.

Not really. If you mean Internet or LAN enabled games, then the OS is very
much into the play. The game plays locally and you're competing with others
(playing the games on their local PCs) over the Internet or a private high
speed LAN. Pure Internet games remain very primitive, again it's all about
processing power required for a single session. You'll probably start
appreciating this more if a teenager is part of your world 24/7.

>>>Did you see the $100 computer in the technology summit?
>>
>> Which technology summit? I've been to a few of those lately :-) I've
>> been looking at a number of designs in the $100 to $200 range.
>
> The one that just happened in Tunis.

That summit. Yes, I'm very familiar with this particular proposal. This is
more of a toy for kids, not a serious computing device. I'm not even sure
it's a good device for places where there is no Internet today. The problem
with this proposal is that it ignores how applications are evolving, so the
hardware is inadequate for the task. To relegate third world kids to limited
devices will only widen the technology gap (when kids in more developed
countries are moving to multi-core processors and high-resolutions screens).
Closing the gap involves committing some serious $'s, a networking
infrastructure, and a national commitment (been there, done that). What
Algeria is doing is probably more like it.


.

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