Re: Jewish uncle-niece marriages
- From: flaviaR@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:56:40 GMT
On 30-Dec-2005, tamsuraiya@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> So-called "marriage evasion laws" are, or were, common when some
> jurisdictions allowed marriage at a younger age than others (the
> "nonage" problem). Maryland still has no minimum age (there is talk of
> enacting one) and with court approval, a pregnant girl may marry.
Which is odd, because I read that it was 14, with parent's permission.
Unless, of course, it was that, *before* 14 you needed a parent's
permission...
There
> was a Washington Post article on that some years ago entitled something
> like "Girl, 13, Marries into Controversy".
[snip]
>
> Many Jewish customs related to marriage and the family derive from the
> Arab countries where Sephardic Jews lived. To this day, valid
> polygamous marriages by Yemenite Jews who migrated to Israel are valid
> both in Jewry and under Israeli civil law.
Intersting enough, the ban on Ashkenazi pylgyny was "up" in the year 2000,
but no one has rushed extra women to the altar yet.... This most likely has
to do with culture & the fact that we must also abide by the laws of the
land
in which we live.
And they are valid -- as are
> other illicit marriages including those between uncle and niece --
> everywhere in the USA for some purposes. Thus: if a man legally married
> in (say) Israel or Rhode Island to his niece is struck and killed by a
> car in, say, Tennessee where the marriage would (I assume) not be, the
> putative spouse can still sue. And notwithstanding the recent Maryland
> case on "insurable interest" lacking in the case of a trust, I assume
> that no insurance company would refuse payment under a life, accident
> or pension policy for "lack of insurable interest" (Chawla v.
> Transamerica Occidental Life Ins. Co., you can Google it).
>
> These days, informal (non-solemnized) marriage has reached such
> proportions that states (and Canadian provinces and European countries)
> are having to deal with it. Hence the virtual abolition of
> "illegitimacy".
And about time, too.
THere are no illegitimate children, only illegitimate parents.
>
> In Jewish and Islamic law, marriage is not the sacrament it is in
> Christianity: it's a contract. And that contract is established (as in
> "common law" marriage) by consent and cohabitation/consummation. So
> whatever the rabbis say, a couple is married if they say they are and
> act as if they were. I have never had even the strictest Beth Din say
> otherwise: the rabbinate may refuse to officiate, but the children are
> Jewish if the mother is,
Which has nothing to do with marriage whatsoever.
and if the "marriage" is not prohibited under
> the law of mamzerim.
>
> There's another problem -- too much of a digression to go into in depth
> here -- relating to the loss of records and the oppression of Jewish
> religious practice during and after the Holocaust and during the Stalin
> years. The rabbis refuse, absolutely, to discuss or debate the "burden
> of proof" on this issue. But two generations of living as Jews "cures"
> the defect -- so long as the family stays beneath the radar and the
> issues of conversion, adoption, mamzerim, etc. aren't raised. Everybody
> knows that many of the "Jewish" migrants from Russia aren't Jewish at
> all,
This is because the Law of Return stretches to family members of Jews.
> although forgery of documents is easier to detect than it was,
> there are still loopholes and missing archives.
>
> And a last problem, mentione in the prior posting, is the need to
> distinguish between "affinity" (which I think is really of Canon law
> origins) and "incest". Jews always could, and still can, marry their
> deceased wife's sister. That was illegal in Canon law, both Catholic
> and Anglican.
And I never understood that - but it wasn't my place to question it.
And can you (should you) marry a woman who has lived in
> your family as a child, with you in loco parentis? As we all know,
> Woody Allen did just that.
He's a scumwad, for sure, but I can't see any religious/legal prohibiton for
it.
Susan
.
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