Re: A Question About Kasruth Law

On May 11, 10:22 am, "Henry Goodman" <henry.good...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"mm" <NOPSAMmm2...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:tdujs65qhdlgich52n0pnucaedlab7iibu@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 10 May 2011 13:59:20 +0000 (UTC), cindys



<cste...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 8, 6:33 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2011 01:04:09 +0000 (UTC), cindys

<cste...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 8, 12:30 pm, Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mcle...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On May 8, 11:04 am, Joe Bruno <ajta...@xxxxxxx> wrote:> Numerous
artificial flavorings are available in food markets.
Is it a violation of Kasruth to put in your food artificial
flavorings
that taste like
pork or shrimp?

What about the imitation crab that is so widely available?

No, but it's caught under "the appearance of transgression". Just as a
non-supremacist American wouldn't have a pretend Negro slave, pretend
pork or shellfish is frowned up.

By whom? Not by anybody I know. Since everybody is well aware of
imitation seafood products, there is no appearance of transgression.
Years ago, if somebody served pareve margarine with a meat meal, the
custom was to leave it in its wrapper so as not to give the appearance
that it might be butter. But now, everybody knows about pareve
margarine, and if a yellow stick of fat appears on the dinner table,
nobody is going to think it is butter, so it is no longer necessary to
leave the wrapper on.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

At my first seder this year, the hostess had KLP non-dairy creamer in
a one pint paper carton to go with the coffee, and on the label it
said "This container must be left on the table when served with a meat
meal." Or something like that. IOW, maybe there is a "rolling
boundary".
----
I would argue that this is an extra precaution that this manufacturer/
supervising rabbi decided to take.

I would argue that your example of margarine doesn't mean much, since
parve** margarine can be well-known but that doesn't mean that parve
coffee creamer is as well-known and *certainly* not that imitation
crab meat is well-known.

I mean, who knows from crab meat?  It's another world. Who would want
to eat crab meat*** even if you could eat crab meat?  That's different
from parve margarine and parve creamer, since Jews have a very long
history of eating butter and cream.

And especially since much of the imitation crab meat is fish, all
right, but it's flavored with crab juice.  People buy it because it's
cheaper, not because it had fins.

***I'm exaggerating here, because in fact I enjoy phoney crab meat.
But if one likes butter on his bread on milchig meals, he could
actually miss it during fleishig meals.  Same -- even moreso -- for
cream in the coffee, so there's an already present incentive to eat
the non-dairy versions, but if you've never had real crab, how much
would you want imitation crab?   Not at all for reasons of missing it.
I've never had real rattlesnake, and so I have no desire for imitation
rattlesnake. Even though it might taste good, I have no way to
recollect that.

I think that most of us (in this
day and age) understand that there is such a thing as non-dairy
creamer, ubiquitously available in the USA anyway, and that the host/
ess in an observant Jewish home would not put dairy creamer on the
table after a meat meal. That said, while there is obviously no
halachic ruling that states one cannot leave pareve creamer or pareve
margarine in its original container, in 2011, many/most O rabbis would
argue that this is no longer the necessity it was 40 years ago.

First came margarine, then came creamer, and then came crab meat.  If
only many/most O rabbis would say this about margarine and creamer, I
feel confident that fewer would say this about crab meat, which was
the topic I addressed. (I only brought up creamer to point out the
boundary that rolls with time. But not at a predetermined speed.)

Best regards,
---Cindy S.

**But beware, readers, because most margarine is milchig these days
(though not all of course).  I don't know about when it first came
out. (When it first came out, in Wisconsin, it was by law sold white,
with a capsule of yellow coloring, to discourage anyone from buying
it.  Wisconsin, the Dairy State, where milk is king.)

______________________________________________________________________________

I thought that a lot of margarine is treif, contains animal fat.
My family only ate hechshered margarine (tomor?) which is parev.
On the other hand, butter only needs a hechsher on Pesach.
-----
I think things may be different in England. In the USA, all margarine
requires a hechsher (just like other processed foods), but I don't
think margarine has been made with animal fat for many years. The main
issue with margarine now is that the majority of it is dairy.

When I was growing up, butter did not require a hechsher. Now, it does
(cue Steve here). That said, this doesn't present a problem, as all
the butter available in the supermarket carries a hechsher.

WRT to Pesach, AFAIK, the butter must actually have a KLP (at least
that is the standard amongst O Jews in the USA). Milk is okay without
the KLP as long as it was purchased before Pesach. Maybe the same is
true for butter (not sure), but I've only been told about this
exception WRT milk. I only buy the KLP-marked butter for Pesach.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A Question About Kasruth Law
    ... imitation seafood products, there is no appearance of transgression. ... Years ago, if somebody served pareve margarine with a meat meal, the ... who knows from crab meat? ... from parve margarine and parve creamer, since Jews have a very long ...
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  • Re: A Question About Kasruth Law
    ... imitation seafood products, there is no appearance of transgression. ... Years ago, if somebody served pareve margarine with a meat meal, the ... coffee creamer is as well-known and *certainly* not that imitation ... who knows from crab meat? ...
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