Re: member of Danish resistance dies.

mm <NOPSAMmm2005@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
mm <NOPSAMmm2005@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

BTW, the reason I didn't use the term "Righteous among the Nations" is
found at
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0411/is_n1_v46/ai_19353461/

I had his thought in the back of my mind, but hadn't fleshed it out
or expressed it. He does so very well, although I've only gotten
to the end of the second screen.

Meir, I am not surprised you go for that article. I don't. It is too
"pedantic".

Well, he does say the same thing over and over again. I'd only read to
the bottom the second screen when I posted but there was very little
new in the rest of it.

Those who give the title and those who recieve it and
those who see it being given, know what is meant. To agonize over
the _precise_ meaning of the word "Righteous" and to discuss whether
it "really" is proper, is a waste of time.

If that is what you mean by pedantic, I disagree that it is a waste of
time. I disagree, if you are saying so, that everyone who matters
knows what is meant. I think words have meaning and those meanings
are present in people's minds even when they are reading or listening
with a general idea or even a strong idea what is meant by the
speaker.

I think the children of those so honored wake up one day and don't
understand why the words were used. I think many of those, both Jews
and gentiles, who are slighted by the choice of words, feel it deep
down. This can lead to real but underserved negative consequences**.

I don't agree. While there might be confusion _when_ imprecise words
are used, I really doubt that one morning someone will wake up and
suddenly wonder "What _does_ 'Righteous Gentile' mean?".

I think eveything the author of the url above said is true, and his
logic applies elsewhere as well, and people should read the url and
try to bear it in mind when they talk, esp. about important things.

Forgive me for saying, you
do much the same. Your posts are _full_ of 'qualifications" and
"explanations" and digressions which besides being tedious to read,

I know that bothers you, but in this case I only changed righteous to
hero. That's the same number of words.

seem to attempt to ensure that anything you write could not be
considered "wrong".

I want it not to BE wrong or considered wrong.

"Stay far from a false matter." (For people who don't recognize
Torah quotes, that's Exodus 23:7) Are you telling me not to be
diligent in keeping this commandment?

Chas v'shalom. But if you "know" what you are saying, and the general
audience also knows what you're saying, it is not a "false matter" if
some people can misconstrue it. Some people can misconstrue
_anything_!

My advice? Say your piece and be done with it.

My piece in the first post was 4 lines.

My piece in the second post was amply said by the first two pages of
the url above.

My piece in this post is longer because it attempts to explain my
views to someone who has his mind made up, not an easy task, and to
others who may have been convinced by him.

Yup.

**Maybe it's a a mere coincidence, maybe not, but just an hour ago was
an example of a situation where using the wrong word garbles others'
and even one's own thinking and leads to undeserved harm. On "As it
Happens", a radio show from Canada, was the story about the manager of
a homeless shelter in Canada who was criticized, esp. by women, for
saying roughly that "Some women call attention to themselves by
walking around in their underwear or less." Women said that he was
blaming women for the six cases of sexual abuse (maybe rape) in the
shelter. He was not blaming them, he was describing what happens.

He said his words were taken out of context, but even he didn't notice
that the problem is the consistent misuse for the last 40 years at
least of the words "fault" and "blame". It's honest and sincere but
it's misleading. People do this even about themselves. Someone in my
building in Brooklyn was mugged iirc in the lobby, and at a tenants'
meeting he said "It was my fault. I shouldn't have let him come in
when I did." I pointed out to those there that his being mugged was
not his fault, but it was his mistakek to let someone into the
building. People all over the US are blaming themselves just for
making various kinds of mistake.

Both accuracy and precision in speech are very important.

Agreed. Use the right word, but you needn't quealify every _possible_
mistake someone can make.

--
Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
May Eliezer Mordichai b. Chaya Sheina Rochel have a refuah shlaimah
btoch sha'ar cholei Yisroel.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
.

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