Re: Yiddish/ Hebrew help - please

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 09:55:48 +0000 (UTC), micha@xxxxxxxxxxx (Micha
Berger) wrote:

mm <NOPSAMmm2005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In Spanish and maybe Ladino, Jewish is Judaico. There is no reason
Sephardim can't call Ladino Judaico, and translate that to Jewish when
they speak Englsh.

But they wouldn't, because they have more awareness that other Jews exist,
that Ladino isn't "the language of the Jews".

I don't think they would either, but I still think there could be more
than one language whose name in English was Jewish. If it caught on,
we could call one Jewish-L and the other Jewish-Y (like in Spanish (in
Guagatmala and maybe all of America or the world) they distinguish two
letters of their alphabet as Beh-vaca and Beh-burro.** Around here
there are two Marriottsville Roads. One is called on the map and on
the street signs Marriottsville Road (2). Marriottsville can't be
found anymore, but they both went there, one from the north and the
other from the northeast.

**The sound of b and v in American afaik Spanish is the same, part way
between an English or Hebrew b and v, like a b without the explosive
part; or like a v with the lips softly together, instead of the
upper lip not touching the lower lip and the upper front teeth
touching the lower lip which is wrapped over the lower front teeth,
like an English V. It took a while to learn but I can say it.

I happen to agree with Abe's other point. In an era where the Ashk and
Seph Jewish communnities geographically overlap, why do we have a need
to use a language that divides us?

I know you know this. Their goal is not to divide us but to unite
themselves with all the Jews who spoke Yiddish, including the millions
murdered by the nazis and the millions of children they would have
had.

My rabbi's and his parents etc. were O all their lives, and his kids
didn't know any Yiddish until I think they started learning in high
school. At the aufruf for one, and maybe all three, afterwards he had
to translate his talk into English so his mother, the daughter of an O
cantor, would know what he said. I think my rabbi knew Yiddish maybe
but used it very little. Now one kid lives in Jerusalem and one
nearby in Beitar Ilit, and they speak Yiddish and English at home. One
told me he doesnt' want to speak Hebrew because it recognizes the
government too much, and the other didn't say anything negative but I
think he said he liked Yiddish. I think everyone in both families
can speak Hebrew too, at least when they need to. The store, the
radio.

For example, why would someone giving
a Torah lecture (shiur) need to put up a linguistic hurdle in front of
much of his audience?

(Speakng of shiurim, that's about all I can follow in Yiddish.)

...
BTW, when I was in Yerushalayim, at a religious bookstore, I noted

FTR, the bookstore is about a short block west of King George St.
close to where it interesects with the Beh Yehuda mall. There ia a
park on the east side of King George there, with bathrooms, and the
bookstore is on the south side of the south border of that park.

I don't think I read this on a book but on some sort of banner on the
wall.

that they had Shabbes spelled shin, aleph, beis, ayin, sov, a phonetic
Yiddish spelling of Shabbes, even though Hebrew words in Yiddish are
normally spelled as they are spelled in Hebrew. I presume they didn't
spell it shin, beis, sov because too many people would pronounce that
Shabbat. This just shows how complicated things are. Should
Ashkenazim be offended that some spell the word with five letters
instead of its proper Yiddish spelling of 3 letters? And how common
is it to spell it this way?

It's a YIVO-ism. Like the material my HS provided (decades ago) for the
NY State Regents test in Yiddish (as a foreign language), which I recall
having "yuntef" spelled yuf-alef-nun-tes-ayin-fei rather than the usual
spelling as though it were still the Hebrew "Yom Tov" just being pronounce
"yuntef".
<
A product of Yiddishists who wanted Yiddish to be a real language, not
a creole, and therefore used Yiddish spelling for everything.

You and Amitai have very different views on this. Maybe both of you
are right, maybe only one??

Neither of you agree with me, which is fine since I was just guessing.
I'm very glad I posted and very glad you both answered.


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--

Meir

"The baby's name is Shlomo. He's named after his grandfather, Scott."
.

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