Re: Neturei Karta

In <h49o0m$l3$2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> micha@xxxxxxxxxxx (Micha Berger) writes:

Steve Goldfarb <slg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So if there's a duty to chastize, then what's the problem with Jay and
Joel posting those articles in the first place?

There is a duty to chastize constructively.

The rioters are not expressing concern for a brother, or for the fate
of our mutual boat, because they aren't making sure to do things that
actually solve the problem. They're just venting.

Just to be clear, the point on the one side is "not only should these
Chareidim not be violent, that goes without saying, but they should just
mind their own business, too." And you're countering that by saying "I
also condemn the violence, but they have a duty to chastise, they should
just do it in an appropriate and constructive way." Is that fair?


THAT's what I'm saying is exactly the same as certain posters here who
have a habit of predominantly complaining here unconstructively and to
people who aren't even the ones they wish to sway. It's not constructive,
there is no real indication they want the problem solved.


If your point is that Jay and Joel aren't chastising constructively,
that's one thing, but it's always sounded to me like the posters who
object are going further, and saying "why don't they just mind their
business."

So all I'm saying is the point about being constructive is perhaps valid,
but if the Chareidim don't have to "mind their business," then why should
Joel and Jay have to?

Instead it comes across as a personal ego massage: I'm not so bad, look
at these *alleged* "holy rollers" who are worse. And I bet I can you
"religious guys" baited so that you can give me excuses to look down at
you too! Even if I have to twist your words to do so.

I can't tell you how you perceive things, but for what it's worth that's
not how I see what they're doing. I guess I give them the benefit of the
doubt that they're actually trying to effect some change.

And it's even possible - it's certainly not impossible that you know
people who know these demonstrators, for example, and Moshe just posted
that sometimes they are right outside his door. So maybe, after reading
what Jay and Joel posted, Moshe might say "hey, you know what? That's not
right!" and maybe try to shake some sense into somebody. Or in some other
way actively demonstrate his repugnance for what they're doing rather than
just dismissing it. That'd be constructive, wouldn't it? (I know Moshe
condemns the violence, and you know Moshe condemns the violence, but I'll
be the demonstrators are unaware of his position)


--s
--

.

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