Re: ADL Condemns Shooting of American Soldiers at Army Recruiting

Don Levey wrote:
For some reason, this post was both posted and mailed - Moshe responded
via email. At his request, I'm posting his response here:




Don Levey wrote:
moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
cindys <cstein1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

El Sayyid
Nossai (y"sh) who murdered R' Kahane was also involved in the 1993
bombing of the WTC. But not every crazy Muslim who kills someone has
connections to plots such as that one. There are many who are acting
as lone gunmen. And every lone gunman who goes off the deep end and
starts shooting people up is not doing so as part of a grand
conspiracy. He's doing it because he's hateful and crazy. That was my
point.
And the way to tell the difference is...? To _assume_ there is _no_
connection? That's what they did with El Sayyid Nossai.

Moshe, I think I'm safe in presuming that none of us here are
responsible for the investigations. I would recommend that, absent any
evidence to the contrary, we not go crazy assuming connections between
every stubbed toe and Al Qaeda,
You can call it "stubbed toe", but we're talking about premeditated
MURDERS!

and allow those who *are* responsible for the investigations do
their jobs and present us with the evidence.
Don, the people who are responsible answer to the court of public
opinion.

How? They're not elected officials, they're FBI agents.
True. But they're _bosses_ are "elected officials" or the appointees
of such officials. An "attitude" can be felt in every organization
as to what is "done".

Or how do _you_ explain the FBI agents who _refused_ to even
consider any further connection regarding El Sayyid Nossai?

Ornagisational culture? A perception that they had bigger fish to fry?
There are quite a few possible explanations, some of which attribute
malice to (some of) the FBI agents involved, some attribute
incompetence, some an honest mistake - and I don't think we need to look
further. Occam's Razor, and all that.

Perhaps they themselves _said_ why at some time?

I don't know. Personally, I believe it's unlikely as they tend to be
rather reticent, especially about failures that would be as obvious as this.

They don't answer to public opinion any more than the fire
department does, nor would I want them to
Oh, I don't want them too either. But there's a difference between
knowing what's "done" and bowing to the publics whims.

Then what do you call answering to the court of public opinion?

It was a _bit_ of hyperbole, like a murder = stubbed toe.

Ah. Yes, it would be nice if things were more transparent so that we
would know that they've covered the things we'd like (or know why not).
However, I don't think that they can reasonably operate that way
without serious security risks.

For me, I see two alternatives:
I believe that they are doing what they are supposed to do,
I believe that they are not doing what they are supposed to do.

The first leaves me open to disappointment (and yes, worse). The second
is t he way to chaos, because it undermines the fundamental faith that
we *must* have in a democratic government if the government (and the
nation) are to succeed in the long term.

- they're charged with protecting the public, not bowing to its whims.

Even if they *don't* do their job and follow up on the investigations
(as seems to be what happened here), the fact that we don't have access
to any of it means that all we can do is speculate. I would prefer
watchful waiting to hair-trigger panic.
You don't usually use such loaded words ("stubbed toe", "hair-trigger
panic"). Why are you using them here? To appeal to emotion rather than
reason?

Because the whole argument is emotional. From my perspective,
those who are (over)reacting are doing so from an emotional place,
not a logical one.
People are being murdered, and from _your_ perspective, there is an
(over)reaction?

Yes., because the evidence at hand (so far) indicates that seeing every
murder committed by someone with dark skin or someone who can pronounce
"Allahu Akbar" as part of a global conspiracy is unsupported at best.
It also presents a bad image for us, crying "wolf" at every opportunity,
and will quite likely result in a decrease in our credibility.

No need to cry "wolf", no need to _publicize_ what's being
investigated. Just don't _ignore_ possible connections.

In an idea world, that would be great - but can it be done without
compromising security? Knowing what is being investigated means knowing
what is NOT being investigated.


Using pure logic isn't going to help, because there's no way "in".
????????

In an emotional discussion, someone discussing the issue in a purely
logical manner is generally unable to "break in" because they're
operating on the wrong plane. It's a situation where people are talking
at or past each other, rather than exchanging ideas and examining the
others'. The first order of business is getting an honest response from
the other, so that we can start bringing the emotional level down and
the logical level up.

Hmm, I didn't think I was being emotional, that was _your_ suggestion.

Don, you mailed this. If it _should_ have been posted, please post
this response as well. Thanks.


My apologies - I see these calls of a worldwide Muslim conspiracy in
which every conceivable attack by a Muslim is necessarily a part as an
illogical, emotional response when a more measured one would be more
useful. For the record, I've been trying to put the previous statement
in a way that isn't insulting or obnoxious, and I fear I may have failed.

--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to salearn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc

.

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