Re: What Jewish brains are good for

moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
Micha Berger wrote:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Micha Berger wrote:


As the verse in Exodus goes, G-d offered us the Torah and the Jewish
People responded, "We will do and we will hear". Doing comes first.
Understood. Additionally, part of what I'm saying is that if the law
*is* of directly Divine origin how much more meaning is needed?
Well, one would think He isn't being arbitrary, and therefore there is a
point to all that.
Sure, but I am assuming that almost by definition we would be unable to
understand it (or, at the least, that our understanding it isn't
necessary). I've been approaching the human-made hypotheses for these
laws. Again, to look at the Chanukah example, we can talk all day about
how the individual days might represent stages of creation, or days from
birth to Brit Milah, or a whole host of other things, but these all seem
to be human-devised guesses that seem to have little purpose beyond a
salve to our psyches.
That phrase "salve to our psyches" sounds like a put-down. I see it
as making us even more aware of G-d's Greatness and the Infinity of
the Torah.

My apologies if it came across that way; it was not my intent.
Part of my discomfort with the concept may be the way in which I've seen
such things described: rather than "you might think about it this way"
it's "this is the meaning." The first makes it more clear (to me) that
it's something we devise for our own benefit; the second seems to imply
that the speaker has knowledge of Gd's intent and that this is IT.

You never heard that from me or Micha. We have much too much
appreciation of our limitations to say "the" reason". On the contrary,
we've both, often, complained about using "the" when talking about
a reason.

You're correct - though I've heard it elsewhere (and possibly in
sources/stories that you've cited).


You may have noticed that I tend to chafe at such things, and my
reaction may be driving some portion of my response.

We're on the same page here!

As a parent, I have to ask: whatever happened to "because I said so"?
I said, many times. that our _basic_ reason for any mitzvah is
"because I said so". (Which is why Joel claims we left our brains
at the synagogue door).

Yes, I believe that's why he said such a thing. It's not how I
would characterise it, but to be honest I can see where such a
sentiment would arise.

But it's a Catch-22 situation. You want a ""because I said so". And
then Joel jumps in and says "Aha, you're a bunch of robots". And the
truth, as often the case is in the middle. which was my whole purpose
in starting this thread.

Why is it Catch-22? The "because I said so" answer necessarily shuts
down questioning, and independent thought on whether or not to obey.
I'm not saying that this is always a bad thing, mind you, but from my
perspective it is what it is.

All the rest is not "why" we do it, but gives us greater understanding
and meaning _when_ we do it "because I said so". Which is why I
called this thread "What Jewish brains are good for".

...But those are meanings and understandings that we (as humans) have
tacked onto the act in the first place! Some of the ones I've seen look
like downright mystical superstition, too, which in and of itself seems
to bother me. Of course, that may be because I lack the proper
perspective; I'm just trying to fit this all into a pattern that
resonates for me.

You don't have to do it all at once, it's a _lifetime_ job. That's
why Torah study is qualitative different from studying other subjects
l'havdil. If you know the quadratic equation, there is no point in
reviewing it. When it comes to Torah, the Talmud says, there is no
comparing a person studying something _one hundred times_ to studying
it one hundred _and one_ times.

I used to know the quadratic equation. However, I've not reviewed it in
a long time, and while I might still be able to repeat the formula I
can't go through its uses and implications. Maybe they're not quite as
different after all.

--
Don Levey, Framingam MA If knowledge is power,
(email address in header works) and power corrupts, then...
NOTE: Don't send mail to to salearn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
GnuPG public key: http://www.the-leveys.us:6080/keys/don-dsakey.asc

.

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