Re: Audio - Pronunciation According to Rabbi Bar Hayyim

On 2008-05-20, jameshanley39@xxxxxxxxxxx <jameshanley39@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 20 May, 00:26, "Leon" <wordswordsNOS...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
<jameshanle...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message


this is how to pronounce hebrew, from a student of rabbi daweed bar
hayyim.   (that's daweed, not the arabic, dawud)

He bases his consonants on the saadya gaon.

Not sure about what the vowels are based on.

That's some DYNAMIC delivery!


I'm not in marketing.

By the way.. When using text to communicate with him on this subject,
there is a slight problem.. You americans are a bit difficult.

I was trying to ask him whether there is any difference between the
ashkenazi kamatz, and the sephardi cholem.

Me, living in britain, hearing some ashkenazi accents, I can't see a

I'm going to butcher the following story.

My father-in-law was with us over Pesach. He teaches, amongst other
topics, Biblical Hebrew at the university he works for. He's
expressed his dissatisfaction in the past with the majority of Hebrew
instructional materials, to the point where he hopes to write his own
text someday.

One example he gave, though, was a common "translation" chart for the
vowels, that one author used a number of years ago, and many modern
texts seem to have copied verbatim. I don't remember the exact example
he gave, so I'll steal yours. Something that's bothered him for a while
was an example that resembled "cholam is pronounced oh as in bother."
But, he contended, that doesn't make any sense, since "bother" doesn't
have an "oh" sound.

He only recently learned that the author of the original text and thus
the original chart that's copied verbatim in a number of other American
texts on learning Hebrew, was IRISH, and based all of his examples off
of that....

But I cannot even find words that in american, make the ashkenazi
kamatz / sephardi cholem sound.
In an english accent. Boris. Bother.
Seems to be the Oh I am looking for.
But you americans pronounce that like a sheep.
Even the dock in hickery dickery dock.. I can see you americans would
pronounce it dar k or duck. Completely lose the oh I am looking for.

Is there any american english word that expresses the oh ?

and just saying Oh doesn't do it, because that is ambiguous. one could
say "Oh but not as in Go". But surely there is an american word that
makes the sound of that vowel ?

Not that I can think of. Even the letter "o" when reading the
alphabet isn't pronounced the same as the accents you're familiar with.
It's an American accent thing that doesn't fully form the sound, at
least with the American accent I'm familiar with. I suppose I could
say it's like the "hon" in a Baltimore (Bawlmer) accent, but there's no
doubt very few people here who would know what the heck I'm talking about..

Actually, if you were Canadian, "oh as in about" could be the sound
you're looking for, but again, that's not an American example.


P.S. I've heard "which" pronounced with the "h" vocalized when
listening to BBC Radio Scotland, but not in the US.

Timothy A. Meushaw