Re: Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:43:26 +0000 (UTC), in
soc.culture.jewish.moderated , "DoD" <danskisanjar@xxxxxxxxx> in
<ubNPi.1302$Qr.788@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:6v9tg390imm0tr3gctnk30p7d2bepbsjqs@xxxxxxxxxx

<snip stuff, I said I wasn't going to talk about anymore>

I picked out some key points from her article.

No, You posted bits from a blog. Unless, of course, you are the owner of
that blog.

It is something she wrote.

If you think that the
statements sound better in context by all means provide the relevant
context. That a particular kind of anti-Semitism is common, if it is,
is not a defense of it.

Let me ask you this, and answer it *honestly*.... What do you think is
better...Judaism or Atheism?

Ok, I guess you don't have any context that makes the comment better.
And I don't go and evangelize and I don't do it by wishing that all
those other people were gone or "perfected".

Or a statement that things would be better if all of America
was Christian?

Most Christians want to see the whole world become Christian. A different
view as I gather from Jews... But it is still there. There are a vast
variety of ideas on how this might be accomplished.

And anti-Semitism is deep in Christianity, again I don't see this as a
defense.

If you are talking about anti-semitism towards Judaism, I would agree.

Is there another kind?

If
you are talking about anti-semitism towards Jews, I would have to partially
agree.

Huh?

I get in trouble for suggesting that insular
communities are like the ghetto, but you support someone implying
conversion or expulsion. I find that amazing.

No, you said they should go to the ghetto.

I said that in a relevant context:

Oh... *context* works for you but nobody else.

No, context works for her as well, all you have to do is provide the
context that changes the meaning. I asked you to do that and you
changed the subject. So don't go and play this game: you want to
defend that offensive nasty anti-Semite, you do the work and find the
defense. If you can't, then don't pretend I have avoided it.

that Cindy claimed that they did
not want to come into contact with anyone outside their group. Given
that desire then the ghetto is not unreasonable. It helps them in
*their* goal. Not mine, I *objected* to that attitude.

Sounds like a lot of back peddling from you original, which I will quote
here again.

"I have a simple solution: they should go back to the ghetto. I know of
a few places in the world that would be happy to let them live in
their own private world."

Sounds like you did not understand, refuse to understand, and/or can't
understand. Sounds like you are ignorant of the long running debate in
the Jewish community of whether insular communities are like the
ghetto.

So Coulter thinks Jews should convert and Matt thinks they should go to
ghettos.... Both sound inflammatory and I am sure both want proper context
to be used. Hmmmm....

I am sure that the context of my statement is available and I am sure
I have explained it. And I am sure that you are unable to provide
context that changes the meaning of Coulter's remark. So you are
either going to backpedal on your defense of the anti-Semite or you
are going to attack me as a substitute.

That is where you got into
trouble. She implyed conversion, (from what I read in your leftist cherry
picked quote) But where the heck does she imply expulsion?

Well, I can think of three ways to make the U.S. Judenfrei,

I wonder if one of those ways is to ship them all to ghettos?

Do you? Or are you supporting someone who has considered death camps
as an alternative?

Moderators: you had better allow that, worse has been said about me
and you allow that.

I hope she
does not support the third. (But she does seem to support killing
rather vast numbers of Muslims, so I can't be sure.)

Maybe vast amout of Muslim terrorists, and so do I. Does that make me a bad
man?

If you agree with Coulter, sure. Have you looked at the kinds of
things she has said? Please don't pretend she has limited it to
terrorists (or are you one of those who sees all Muslims as
terrorists?)

Look, what she said was inflammatory...to say the least.

Yes, to say the least, anti-Semitic to say it accurately. But you
don't seem to want to say it accurately.

I don't believe she
is correct, but I think a mass conversion from Judaism to Christianity will
happen but it will be supernatural... so my personal opinion is, it is (who
I percieve) as G-d that will handle it.. It is none of my affair.

I am sorry, I forgot who I was talking to. Of course you support this
stuff.

And also,
if I am wrong, no harm, no foul. I don't destroy Jewish identity in the
process. I am not sure that Coulter understands any of that. But for you to
say that she wants a Judenfrei America (in the MANNER) in which you are
putting it out on the table is dishonest.

She said it would be better if there were not non-Christians in the
country. Not after some supposed Rapture, she was discussing politics.
Having no non-Christians means no Jews, no Muslims, no Hindus, etc. I
used the term Judenfrei to make it clear what is involved.

You make it sound like she hates
Jews and that is simply not the case.

And you know this how? I agree that she might be a sociopathic clown
who just says thing to sell books, but she might actually believe the
stuff she says. I don't know and neither do you. I go by the
assumption that she is serious until I see enough people laughing.

All religions believe that they have
the perfect way, Jews are included in this.

Nope. Christians and Moslems do have that view, but it is far from
universal. And wanting all of other religions gone is not simply
feeling you have the better religion.

If a person doesn't believe that
their religion is superior, then why follow it in the first place? She make
think that Christianity is the way to go, but to imply that she wants to
kill Jews to get them out of America is so dishonest, it is not even funny.

No, I said that there were three options. I suppose I should have said
there are three options that people can do and an irrelevant (to a
political discussion) fourth option. But here point was that the
country would be better with only Christians.

Then again, you are atheist, so what the heck???

I am so impressed with the number of religions people assign me. As
though it were relevant in some way.

<I am going to snip the rest because it is just redundant.. If you have a
particular point you think I need to tackle, just cut and paste it back up.>

--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Matthew Broderick on his NY Sweetness! eh
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  • Islams history of anti-Semitism
    ... By Raymond Ibrahim - Is there such a thing as Islamic anti-Semitism? ... The historical documents make clear that, from day one, Jews and Christians have been systematically treated as second-class citizens, "dhimmis," in the regions conquered by Islam. ... More troubling, it is not just history, but immutable theology, which transcends time and space and needs to apply today no less than yesterday. ...
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    ... I reply to Robert Sept.4. ... In his eagerness to find a factual error in the Quran where none ... context in which the Quranic claim was made. ... "The Jews" is sensitive to the context. ...
    (soc.religion.islam)
  • Re: Nostra Aetate
    ... > Anti-Semitism is wrong, but that does not mean that our ... > position regarding the relative standing of Christians and Jews is wrong. ... over againbst the Jews - and of course to reassure Jewish Christians ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th
    ... That a particular kind of anti-Semitism is common, if it is, ... I guess you don't have any context that makes the comment better. ... I don't destroy Jewish identity in the ... used the term Judenfrei to make it clear what is involved. ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)