Re: How to pray?

"Dan Kimmel" <daniel.kimmel@xxxxxxx> writes:
<moshes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
"Steve Goldfarb" <slg@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

Aren't there other workaday things which *require* a bracha? Such
as having a piece of bread with a meal, or simply getting out of bed?

Once again those are prayers of subservience, not specifically requests.
"Thank you for this bread" or perhaps more specifically "I recognize
that
although it might seem like I worked hard to get this bread, in reality
it
came from you and my efforts are nothing."

I wonder if Dan would agree with this formulation?

No. I would put it this way: "I worked hard to earn this bread but
without You there would be no bread for us in the first place.
Thank you for granting me the skills to earn it and for granting
others the skills to make it and for providng what was necessary
for the process to occur at all."

Aha, so you recognize that whatever skills you have are _gifts_ from
G-d. Excellent. I'm not sure why we're arguing.

Very different from "God put some butter on this for me, would yah?"
Or Moshe's example, "Yo, God, how about you find me a button for
this jacket, huh?"

No that was _not_ my example. If you're going to misconstrue what I
said, don't use quotation marks. I said that Rebbe Nachman asked Reb
Noson if he prayed about the lack of the button. I would assume the
prayer would sound something like "G-d I need a million dollars.
Please help me to get it". (Just substitute "button" for "million
dollars" to see the point of the lesson).

Expressed in that fashion it sounds just as trivial and meaningless.

Why? Because I don't mention my "skills"?

(actually I'm not objecting to the familiarity of the speech, don't
let that be a distraction, but the nature of the request)

But the nature of the request, "God, how about you find me a button"
was _your_ reformulation.

How about, "God, see that one of the other automatons makes a button I can
use?" I find your formulations come close to negating the concept of free
will, and without that, Judaism is meaningless.

Dan, I am always discussing the importance of Free Will in Judaism.
Maybe what we should be discussing is the nature and limits of Free
Will, versus the danger of claiming "Kochi v'otzen yadi".

Moshe Schorr
It is a tremendous Mitzvah to always be happy! - Reb Nachman of Breslov
The home and family are the center of Judaism, *not* the synagogue.
Disclaimer: Nothing here necessarily reflects the opinion of Hebrew University
.

Relevant Pages

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