Re: Hitchens on religion

In article <f4272m$aip$5@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jonathan J. Baker <jjbaker@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In <> hrubin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Herman Rubin) writes:
Steve Goldfarb <slg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That is, you can form the sentence "I know that parallel lines can never
meet because it says so in the Book of Euclid 2:15," but that's not a
reasoned statement, it's non-rational. It's a faith statement.

But I don't want to get into that phrase, "reasoning about axioms,"
because it might not really be relevant to the discussion.

When one forms a mathematical model, one reasons about the
axioms determining the mathematical system, and the added
axioms for modeling.

The Greeks considered axioms to be "self-evident truths"
and vice versa. Mathematics has shown us that such does
not exist, that the "obvious" is often false, or worse,
leads to a contradiction, invalidating the possibility
of reasoning from the assumptions.

Ainochenami.

Maimonides principles are true assertions about Judaism.

One can reason, and argue, whether each of them is truly fundamental,
truly an axiom, but if one disproves one of them, one has thereby
rendered the entire system invalid/irrelevant.

E.g.: is worship of God alone, fundamental or derived? But if
it's false, i.e, God is not worthy of worship, then the rest of
the system falls apart, as prayer structures our relationship
with God, the universe, and ourselves. More pragmatically, it is
itself a mitzva; if that mitzva disappears, that demonstrates
that mitzvot are not immutable, and the system falls apart.

However, one can discard all or part of many of the
principles, and the system does not fall apart. The
one you have stated is key; Judaism falls apart
without it. But the ones about the Mosaic origin
of even the Sefer Torah, or the belief in a Messiah
of any kind, is not key. These are additional
assumptions, and are not, IMO, basic to Judaism.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Alien math
    ... Peano axioms? ... are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Defining Natural Numbers
    ... You can give an arbitrary characterization of the strings ... associates with this representation without axioms. ... are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Mathematics: art or science?
    ... from any self consistent system of axioms is true. ... are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Contradictory nature of Goldbach Conjecture
    ... >> of the axioms of arithmetic. ... >doubt any other mathematical theorem proved using similar mathematical ... are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Axioms or Taxioms?
    ... they seem more like abstractions than genuine axioms. ... The difference is that calling a set of statements THE ... are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (sci.math)