Re: Punitive action, appropriate or not, for daily Kassam launches against Israel

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:35:12 +0000 (UTC), in
soc.culture.jewish.moderated , "jameshanley39@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<jameshanley39@xxxxxxxxxxx> in
<1180999889.207571.209240@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[ Moderator's Comment: Please cut down the sniping HPG ]
On Jun 5, 12:16 am, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 01:25:35 +0000 (UTC), in
soc.culture.jewish.moderated , "jameshanle...@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<jameshanle...@xxxxxxxxxxx> in


<1180909066.961040.164...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 25, 2:05 pm, Matt Silberstein
<snip>
A unified Palestinian side is more clearly a nation, and it is
acceptable, in the world eye, for one nation to fight another until
there is a peace treaty.

I don't want to be mean to you because I really like you and think you have
one of the best hearts of anyone I have come across on usenet,

Thanks.

but Matt, you
are living in a fantasy world here. *Think* hard about this. Reality is ugly
and that is what we are dealing with.

I know. As I said, I am very tentative about all of this. I see your
point and I can't refute it, I just don't know.

Wow. Tell me, do leftists admit to each other in private that they
live in fantasy land? You actually know you do !!!

Let's see. A personal attack that somehow is acceptable to the
moderators.


If I tell you that you live in a fantasy land, is that an attack?

Actually, yes, it was an attack on me rather than a criticism of my
argument.

Infact, somebody else said it to you, and you agreed.

I doubt that.

So how am I supposed to have "attacked" you ?

Give your other ideas this is pretty minor.

Leftists that know they don't have a solution shouldn't keep trying
things and making things worse.

I think that bad solutions are worse that no solution.

Does it hurt you to say that you agree with a sentence I wrote then?

I don't much care if I agree or disagree with a person. But, know, I
don't agree with you. You asserted that somehow I have no solution and
therefore should not participate in a discussion to find a solution. I
disagree with that.

But I do find
it interesting that you see something wrong with admitting ignorance.


I never said that.

Sure you did. You objected to my trying to find a solution and to my
admitting that I was not sure about the answer. You see that as a
weakness, I don't.

You read what I said, and responded by repeating it.

I guess if you're trying to prove some mistake at the end of the
theory of evolution, you're going the right way about it.

Huh?

More jews died in the 3 or 5 years following Oslo than in the 15 years
that preceded it.

An irrelevant point,

you obviously missed the relevance..

You obviously did not provide the relevance.

Do you remember the point I made, that you repeated ?

That a bad solution is worse than no solution

Well Oslo was a bad solution.

So, "CLICK"?

but thanks for that. Do you know if it is 3 or 5
years or does something like that not matter to you?


Whether it's 3 or 5, the whole land for piece thing is a bad
solution.

So actual facts were not your interest. Got it.

If you were to say that "were it more jews dying in 5 years rather
than 3, it'd be OK", then you'd have a point. But that'd be sick. I
know you don't mean that. You just haven't grasped anything.

The rate does matter. If more died in, say, the five years after than
the 6 years before that would not mean that Oslo was a bad thing to
do. If more dies in one year after than six before that would be
better evidence.


googled for Oslo 15 years.
http://www.jewishmag.com/15MAG/OSLO/oslo.htm
"In 5 Years Since Oslo, More Israelis Have Been Killed by Palestinian
Terrorists than in the 15 Years Prior to the Accord Death Toll Since
Oslo is 50% Greater than During the Intifada "

I would re-phrase their comment: their solution is simplistic. The
assumption is that without the Oslo Accord things would have been the
same as it had been. It is also possible that the violence was coming
and Oslo reduced the severity. Correlation is not causation.

I've got a better solution than doing nothing.

Since things get worse when land is given away, how about instead of
giving land away, doing the reverse. Take the land.

Yeah, that has worked so well.

Then you have some
options, you could frighten the arabs into submission, subdue them
until they pay the jizya. (they can't complain!). You could throw them
out. Some may even feel so humiliated that they'll want to leave.

This seems to have worked very well so far.

If they were trying it and it were failing, then you'd have some kind
of point with your suggestion.

Are you saying that no attempt has been made to toss out and humiliate
Palestinians? Really?

are you doing that broken theory of evolution thing that I suggested?

Ok, moderators, what am I supposed to do here?

If the Torah were more relaxed,

I do admit, I have no idea what that means.


Of course not. You think the Torah is relaxed, let's you do what you
want. No rules. e.t.c.

No, I have no idea what it means to say that the Torah is relaxed or
not. I don't know how to apply the term "relaxed" to the term "Torah".
And, no, I don't think that there are no rules.

I'd have a great solution to deal with
the arab muslim female terrorists that are captured. It'd be great for
israel's tourist industry too.

Very few people, and I hope at least as low a % of Jews, see rape as a
great tourist activity.

Nothing to do with what I see. It's a fact.

If you and your friends, as you suggest, like the idea of sexual
tourism for the purpose of rape then you need help. Or imprisonment.

If Israel made an open day
in their female prisons for muslim female terrorists to be raped,
they'd get visitors, even from abroad.

They probably would. And if Israel did that then it would deserve
global condemnation and would not deserve to survive as a country.

I'm sure that most of the people that go would be bad people, most
wouldn't be jews. You'd probably have arabs wanting to come!!!!!!

There is an observation about people who use too many !, you have gone
past that limit as well.

Maybe a few people from Darfur to take revenge (arabs caused problems
for blacks there, didn't they?)

How many Germans would you like to rape? What number would make you
feel better?

Fortunately, I doubt the levels of
rapes are as high in Israel as in Britain, but if they were, we could
easily cut down on the number of innocent women getting raped.

I would gladly join the Palestinians if that were my only option to
oppose you and that kind of policy.


When you say "join the palestinians" , do you mean destroy israel and
kill all the jews? I'm sure you don't mean that..

No, I just mean destroy Israel. The Israel *you* propose is a horrible
place.

You just don't understand what palestinians want.

I understood what you want. That was enough here.

I'll repeat to you that somebody else said you live in fantasy land,
and you agreed with him.

Taking things out of context is dishonest.



--
Matt Silberstein

Do something today about the Darfur Genocide

http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org

"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.

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