Re: Jewish Attitudes to Dresden Bombing

In article <m3zm43pcie.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
kahn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (James Kahn) writes:

In <1179421084.885377.25070@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Eliyahu <lrooff@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

Unfortunately, the culture of Iraq and much of the mideast is such
that a strong show of force is the only thing that makes a real
impression. It's not something we like or that we'd feel comfortable
with, but it's probably what is needed to get people's attention. An
Egyptian acquaintance says, "You Americans are going to end up losing
in Iraq, and it's because you're just too nice. No one there respects
you because you don't come down hard on them." It's an alien culture
there, and we are making another mistake if we think that western
sensibilities are going to carry the day in the conflict.

Eliyahu, I agree with your bottom line, but not how you got to it.
I think too much is made of this East-West cultural divide.
The kind of mentality you describe is the same among bullies and
thugs everywhere, east and west. I'm sure most people have experienced
(hopefully not directly) the schoolyard bully, to whom weakness
and appeasement are just encouragement to continue, but if met
with a strong and violent response will shrink away to find another
weak victim. It's universal, and has probably existed since Cain
and Abel.

Do you have any suggestions for why the mentality (same or different)
is more prevalent in some certain cultures than others, or why it seems
to be more tolerated in one vs another?

It was a long development from a hierarchical rule to the
philosophy of western democracy. The Jews asked for a king,
and this was the almost universal society in those days.

Roman democracy started collapsing when there was outside
terrorism around 100 BCE. When the police powers of the
Roman Empire collapsed, those strong men who could control
a sufficient armed force and assure a measure of safety to
those who accepted their protection set up European feudalism,
and those of us who know European history know the GRADUAL
move to a society in which the people have a say in how the
government will operate. The move towards a variety of
sects which discriminated against each other led to freedom
of religion, first in Rhode Island in 1634.

The European political philosophers who toured the US in
the 19th century agreed with the Founding Fathers that
the US would prosper as long as the people did not vote
boons for themselves from the public treasury.

You can take an individual from a tyrannical or feudal
society and have a chance of turning him into what can
be called a citizen, one who believes in rights and
responsibilities, and who does not believe in forcing
behavior on others. But you cannot expect that of
those who can only follow leaders, including religious
ones, who tell them to kill the unbelievers or who
enforce other codes, to accept that as a society.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.

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