Re: Spilling out drops of wine at the Seder


Don Levey wrote:
backon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:


So not only is the "sorrow" hypothesis utter naarishkeit without any
basis whatsoever in traditional sources, the reason given by the Maharil
(Rokeach and Raavya) is 180 degrees different: it's to show how God
will DESTROY our enemies. No touchy-feely "nebich the poor Egyptians"
naarishkeit, a bizarre hypothesis that came out from the halls of the
Reform and Conservative clergy in the late 1940's.

I've seen this in hagaddot from the early 1930s. Not that 15 years or
so makes a large difference in the context of hundreds, but does suggest
that the idea has been around longer, and may indeed have another
source (even if I am not equipped to find it).

Even if Josh is right, it also appears to have scooted over to
Orthodoxy quite quickly. My husband and both of his brothers recall
learning it in their O yeshiva/day school in the 1950s, and two other
friends recall it from their (different) yeshivas (no slash there) in
the 1960s. And at our seders, of course, the kids -- from 2 separate O
day schools and one community day school -- all learned it. (I'll add
that all of us who attended after-school Hebrew school programs also
learned it, but I doubt that adds much to the discussion.)

I may have mentioned -- or may not -- that at a Sephardic seder we
attended a couple of years ago, the custom was not to use the finger or
pinky to remove wine, but to mix wine and vinegar in a jar, again (I
was told) to temper pleasure. (I've found this on the 'net as a Greek
custom, BTW, although our hosts were of Egyptian heritage.) It was
thus appear that the pouring of wine is not always attached to the
symbolism of the finger.

Karen Elizabeth

.

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