Re: justice, justice... Was: Anti-Semitism in the Neo-Confederate movement.

In <dpm2jk$hpi$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> "Rafael" <jmalfatto@xxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

>"Steve Goldfarb" <slg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:dpka5a$9ab$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Herman beat me to this point, but I don't understand your objection....

>My basic point here is that (now that we're really off-topic, I'll try to
>wrap this up), on the grand scale of human economic history, production for
>the purpose of exchange is the exception rather than the rule. The norm is
>production for the purpose of use (e.g. subsistence or personal pleasure).
>[For that matter, even "production", in the civilized sense, is an
>exception, as hunting and gathering are more like procurement - i.e.
>foraging - than production, which is a term so bound up in our agrarian and
>industrial past, in which natural resources are intentionally transformed.
>Also, foragers keep relatively few possessions, given the difficulties of
>transporting them on foot from site to site.]

Let's say I agree with you about the above - I still don't see your
overall point. Yes, let's stipulate that on the grand scale of human
history, production for the purpose of exchange is the exception. I would
ask you to stipulate, then that on that same grand scale human suffering,
starvation, and early death were the rule. As production for the purpose
of exchange, and the exchange itself, were developed - correspondingly,
humanity was able to reduce the starvation and early deaths. That's not
coincidental.

>But if you insist on universalizing economic terms like "market", then why
>give the term "wealth" such a special status? Why not liken the resources of
>whatever ecosystem a society currently inhabits (as settlement is also a
>relatively recent exception) as that society's "wealth" (access to which it
>must sometimes fight to protect)? After all, that seems to me no more of a
>semantical stretch than calling an informal, backyard barter a "market."

Rafael, that IS a "market" in every sense of the word. I'm not giving
"wealth" special status, I'm trying to define it. I think "wealth" in the
regular, non-special usage of the word, is something beyond mere
subsistence. Wealth involves relative value - I'll trade this thing for
that thing. The first 2,500 calories a day isn't relative, it's absolute
-- the value, to you, is infinite.

>And I didn't say that money was "magic." I said that it changes things (viz.
>economic relations), and suggested that it's not "produced" in the same
>sense as "real" commodities, like food or fuel. It has more in common with a
>profession, like legal services, and is a particularly powerful profession
>(e.g. given such traditionally enriching customs as compound interest and
>fractional reserve banking).

The idea of money doesn't change anything. It IS produced in the same
sense as "real" commodities. Consider apples that you spend the time and
energy to grow, but don't intend to eat.


I just don't understand where you're trying to go with this discussion -
what you're trying to prove, exactly.


--s
--

.

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