Re: justice, justice... Was: Anti-Semitism in the Neo-Confederate movement.

In <dphgb3$5rks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> hrubin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Herman Rubin) writes:

>>> First, I'm making what I see as an important technical / semantic point --
>>> you aren't redistributing "wealth," you're eliminating "wealth." What
>>> you're redistributing is cash, or goods. The recipients don't get "wealth"
>>> they get "stuff." There's an important difference.

>>See above. I suspect we're working with different term definitions.

>In many African tribes, wealth is stuff. That we have
>a more portable means of exchange does not make it any
>different. A person's wealth is not the amount of money
>he can control, but includes other aspects.

Wealth is often stuff, but not all stuff is wealth. I think wealth
involves verbs, not just nouns - that why I'm saying that without markets,
there is no wealth, only stuff. And I don't follow Rafael's
differentiation between money-based trade and barter, I don't see how it
makes any difference.

>What is wrong with elitism? Without it, mankind can only
>regress. The Athenians had very little of it, and this
>did not do them that much good. Except for their ten
>elected strategoi, all positions were allocated by lot
>among the male citizens. Is everyone equally qualified
>to be a customs officer?

I meant "elitism" in the sense of an elite caste, not a meritocracy. As
the people are always going to vote for bread and circuses, in a socialist
society you need to establish a caste of decision-makers who know what's
best for the people. That's why I'm saying it's inherently elitist and
patronizing.

>What do you have in a democracy? Look at our "educational"
>system; it is based on the idea that all should get the
>same education. Not on the idea that all should have the
>same opportunity, but to get the same results. And we are
>besieged by proposals to have a "health system" so that all
>will get the same health care, although there is no way
>that there can be enough health care to go around. Also,
>by making it "free", nobody takes responsibility. So the
>wealthy, whose time is valuable, get WORSE care. Is that
>a good idea?

Our educational system is an example of why socialist institutions can't
be democratic and remain effective. To be effective, our schools either
need to be less democratic (no voting for school boards, no local voting
on school taxation) or less socialist.

>The Rabbinic system is an elite system. A sound academic
>system must be an elite system. We do not complain when
>elite athletes are better paid than the average person;
>why should we complain elsewhere? Ochlocracy, which is
>what democracy becomes, is as totalitarian as anything
>else, and the mob does not fear overthrow by themselves.

Different use of the term "elite" - while Cohanim are truly an "elite"
system in that other sense, the Rabbinic system, athletics, etc., aren't
drawn from an elite class. They form an "elite" but I think that's
actually a metaphor, comparing the meritocracy to an actual elitism.

--s
--

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: justice, justice... Was: Anti-Semitism in the Neo-Confederate movement.
    ... A person's wealth is not the amount of money ... >I meant "elitism" in the sense of an elite caste, ... This was not the problem of democracy initially. ... of some of the "departments of education" who enunciated the ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)
  • Re: was Re: OT: tv couch potatoes: now old mans faded memories.
    ... Elite on the PC in DOS was great as with Norton's NU you could work out what the bytes did in your pilot file. ... At the end of each cave section there was either a large spider with little babies that crawled down to get to you or that large squid type creature in that spiral shell, I bloody well forget the name but played that lots. ... We trade our wealth in search of health, ...
    (uk.media.tv.misc)
  • Re: 13 Cars
    ... lack of wealth is the mark of a cretin? ... Lack of wealth is the mark of someone who is not socially elite. ... Wealth is not a criteria for the academic elite in their "Ivory Towers". ... I don't think that's the point, however misguided, that McCain ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: Chavez Aims to Challenge Bush on Trade
    ... > control the vast majority of the world's resources and wealth want some ... > while continuing to consolidate and control the wealth... ... Some of the wealthiest men in the world have supported-financed communism. ... government which will be ruled by the 3% elite. ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: The "Blair Legacy"
    ... democracy, those being variously access to education, personal wealth, ... the world's economy collapse and/or oil run out, ... Failed/overbudget government projects; another relic of the Blair years. ...
    (soc.culture.scottish)