Re: justice, justice... Was: Anti-Semitism in the Neo-Confederate movement.

"Yisroel Markov" <ey.markov@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:s1a3r1hqkpdad0tp6413ju8peea7fsu0np@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:36:52 +0000 (UTC), "Rafael"
> <jmalfatto@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>
> >I agree that the hypothetical scenario would not be stable in reality
> >(indeed, the history of social revolutions suggests that), but that is
> >irrelevant to my point; viz. that, in common parlance (if not common
sense),
> >this would be an example of an "unjust distribution of wealth."
> >
> >For you to say that there is "no such thing" as a "just distribution of
> >wealth" is, I suspect, an idiosyncratic or sectarian use of language.
>
> There can be an unjust distribution of wealth where violence or
> grossly unequal opportunities exist. However, a definition of a "just"
> distribution is so nebulous and so unlikely to be universally agreed
> upon as to be pretty much meaningless.

Like obscenity, you know it when you see it (or, even more clearly, when you
don't).

Perhaps (like God) justice functions as a placeholder for something else
(e.g. a set of circumstances widely held to be desirable or a modus operandi
widely deemed fair, as you suggest below). But it exists (contrary to
Herman) as much as any abstract concept exists.

Regardless, the author of Devarim was not shy about its use (as I alluded in
the subject line).

> Perhaps a "fair" distribution is better. I'd argue that in a system
> similar to the American one the distribution is mostly fair. (I came
> here with $40 to my name 16 years ago, and am in the top 10% of the
> income scale now. Admittedly, redistributive forces - namely subsidies
> to higher education - were a major factor.)
>
> >Regardless, to suggest that the abstract concept of justice has no
> >application to the economic sphere is paramount to a denial of justice
> >altogether. That might be meaningful in some modern libertarian forum,
but
> >is entirely alien to Judaism (e.g. with its tradition of respect for the
> >rights of the poor, however tribal or national in scope).
>
> AFAIK, Judaism and libertarianism are in agreement on the rights of
> the poor. Beware - this has the potential of replaying the debate of
> whether the obligations to give poor things like peah, leket, etc. are
> identical with the rights of the poor to same.

I won't speak to libertarianism (which often seems to mean whatever the
self-proclaimed libertarian wants it to mean, so long as s/he can claim the
role of champion of freedom in the debate), but I saw no hint in Herman's
comments that he recognizes any such thing as "the rights of the poor."

After all, the language of "rights" is strong. It implies government policy
(be it negative or positive) for protection, in case other institutions in
civil society fail in that regard - and no less so in a democracy (where
majoritarian rule offers no guarantees of minority protection) than in a
monarchy or autocracy.

For those who like to bash anything in which the government played a hand,
that might pose a threat to their ideological orthodoxy.

Rafael


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT Actually Using Crunchyroll . . .
    ... Do you think it's morally okay to sell fansubs provided it is with the ... Free distribution harms commercial distribution, ... therefore devalues the property, harming the rights holders. ... Selling something you don't own with the intention of buying it ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
  • Re: Rightwing Republican Attacks Israel
    ... As a libertarian, I agree, at least at this time, on the ... and he has rights as well. ... Restrictions on gays I generally oppose, ... Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University ...
    (soc.culture.jewish.moderated)
  • Re: OT Hillarys bedtime prayer
    ... to vote for Obama. ... and its underlying state-level rights. ... matter of interpretation (does the Second Amendment give me the right ... Libertarian, and all that crap. ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: Amazing
    ... I'm a Libertarian. ... government providng services to the less fortunate citizens it serves. ... All rights are defined in terms of property rights. ... Encourage private sector ...
    (rec.music.gdead)