Re: Judaism, evolution, and science in general

"Yisroel Markov" <ey.markov@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:q981i1h3r3ucqs9abht4sfbjbmlad08p18@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:28:58 +0000 (UTC), "Rafael"
> <jmalfatto@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>
> >"Yisroel Markov" <ey.markov@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >news:8sjrh1dni1fler5al6bv27958b44p46tui@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:42:05 +0000 (UTC), "Rafael"
> >> <jmalfatto@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
> >
> >> >See Don for comments on the relationship between IQ tests and
> >intelligence.
> >>
> >> Don has a valid point, but it's not very relevant to this particular
> >> discussion. So substitute "more likely to score higher on an IQ test"
> >> or "less likely to suffer from sickle-cell anemia" for "likely to be
> >> more intelligent."
> >>
> >> >(Also, as cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker noted: the variation of
> >> >scores within these racial categories are much greater than the
variation
> >> >between them.)
> >>
> >> Of course. How is this relevant?
> >
> >Once again, I refer you to Don's reply (thereby saving some time and
> >bandwidth).
> >
> >I sense that you're looking for a legalistic loophole out of the 'racist'
> >designation, and, given the limitations of language, it's not so
difficult
> >to find one.
> >
> >Yes, strictly speaking, 'racist' can be stretched broadly enough to
include
> >any claim of statistical variation (no matter how small) between racial
> >groups. By that point, I think it loses its force.
> >
> >Where 'racism' is most forceful, however, is in reference to a race-based
> >justification for social inequity, or, better yet, to instituationalized
> >prejudice against *individuals* on the basis of their racial/ethnic
*group*
> >designation.
> >
> >That said, what I found particularly racist in Jacko's comment was his
use
> >of a claim to an innate, biological trait (based not on statistical
> >demonstration, mind you, but on brute assertion) as a means of degrading
me
> >and other converts to Judaism.
>
> So it's like I said: there's good and bad racism. I have no problem
> with limiting the definition to what you describe above ("bad"
> racism). What still hasn't been demonstrated is that the difference
> Jacko asserted was a means to degrade anybody. Like your example - O
> Jews more likely to believe myths - it was an attempt to explain an
> observed phenomenon.

I can't read Jacko's mind, but I've felt personally insulted by him often
enough that I hardly expect beneficent intent from him anymore (at least not
with respect to me).

But even if we take the idea out of its social context, I think I would find
it degrading (and obnoxious) to be told by anyone that my intuition is
inferior to his/hers based merely on our different biological pedigrees
(which would be an abuse of statistics, had any statistics actually been
cited or existed).

And, more than anything else, that is what still hasn't been demonstrated
(viz. the 'phylogenetic trait' in question).

So, you'll have to forgive me if I treat the claim as just another arrogant
pronouncement (which, I maintain, smacks of racism - or 'bad racism', if you
prefer).

Rafael

> >Again, if you have a better label (ethnocentric?), then by all means use
it.
>
> I don't think we need labels here at all. Especially an old, tired,
> misused one like "racist."
>
> >I suspect that you already understand why I used 'racist', whether you're
> >sympathetic with my cause or not.
>
> Yes, I believe I do.
>
> [snip]
>
> Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
> www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand


.

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